College Conversations S2E8: Will Anyone Hire Me with my Bible Degree? (Summary & Transcript)
In today's competitive job market, the role of colleges in preparing students for the workforce has become a topic of great importance. To shed light on this issue, the College Conversations podcast recently explored the connection between college education and career readiness.
In this podcast we explore the challenges, discrepancies, and innovative approaches to bridging the gap between college education and successful career outcomes.
Key Findings:
The podcast episode revealed that there is a significant disconnect between employers' expectations and graduates' preparedness for the workforce.
According to research conducted by Laurie Kagay, a majority of employers expressed the need for candidates with practical experiences such as internships, leadership roles, and work-study positions.
However, only 49% of graduates felt adequately prepared in oral communication, which was identified as the most valued skill by employers. This discrepancy highlights the importance of colleges fostering not only knowledge acquisition but also motivation, initiative, resilience, self-awareness, and emotional intelligence.
Innovative Approaches
President Gregg Garner emphasized the need for colleges to shift their focus from being the guardians of knowledge to becoming the guardians of implementation and process consideration. He highlighted the Institute for GOD's approach, which prioritizes the development of students' identity in Christ, capacity for occupation and vocation, and resilience in the face of challenges. The institute's commitment to providing students with a comprehensive learning experience, including internships, leadership opportunities, and community engagement, has resulted in impressive outcomes, such as all graduates securing job offers and graduating debt-free. Conclusion: The College Conversations podcast episode on preparing students for the workforce shed light on the challenges faced by colleges and the innovative approaches being taken to bridge the gap between education and career readiness. The insights shared by President Gregg Garner and VP Laurie Kagay highlighted the importance of colleges fostering not only knowledge acquisition but also motivation, initiative, resilience, self-awareness, and emotional intelligence. By providing students with practical experiences and a comprehensive learning environment, colleges can equip them with the skills and mindset necessary for success in the ever-evolving job market.
Notable Statistics:
96% of Chief Academic Officers report their college is very or somewhat effective for preparing students for work. Only 14% of Americans agree with that sentiment. (Gallup)
1 in 10 Business Leaders think that college grads are ready for the workpalce. (Gallup)
49% of recent graduates feel underqualified for entry-level jobs. (Inside Higher Ed)
3 in 4 employers say they’re having difficulty finding graduates with the soft skills they need. (Insight Higher Ed)
2 in 5 graduates regret their majors. (Inside Higher Ed)
Only 30% of college students ever participate in an internship. (Inside Higher Ed)
7 in 10 employers indicated they would be more or much more likely to hire a candidate who held a job or work study position, completed an internship or apprenticeship, or held a leadership role while in college (AACU)
Sources:
View or listen to the podcasts through the following links, or keep reading for a transcript of the podcast.
Transcript of S2E8: Will Anyone Hire Me with a Bible Degree
[00:00:10.80] - Jeff Sherrod
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to College Conversations, the podcast about all things related to Christian higher education. This is for prospective students and their parents, also for current college students who are trying to understand kind of the inside take of what happens, at Christian colleges. My name is Jeff Sherrod. I'm here with president Gregg Garner and the VP of Enrollment and Marketing, Laurie Kagay
[00:00:35.20] - Laurie Kagay
That's me.
[00:00:36.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Alright. So in this episode, we're exploring how colleges prepare students for the workforce. Of course, like, you know, the major controlling wisdom is that, you know, you go to college to get a good job, and so we wanna kind of explore that link a little bit. Like, is that true? Does college really prepare people for the workforce? We're also… Laurie did some work to kind of explore some polls, that both asked the graduates how did they feel going into a work environment and also asked employers how did they receive people from work, and there was some disconnect. I think that's also interesting. We also looked at how even colleges report it.
[00:01:13.09] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah. How's that?
[00:01:13.59] - Jeff Sherrod
Think that they're preparing students and stuff.
[00:01:15.50] - Laurie Kagay
People in your position. It's like chief academic officers think.
[00:01:19.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Well, we all think we're doing a great job. So yeah. And then and then and the so we'll spend some time talking about the issues. You You know, what does this look like? What are colleges kind of doing? And then we'll spend some time at the end even talking about the Institute for GOD and some of our innovative approaches to trying to address this issue. So maybe we'll just start with that, Laurie. Like, you know, this kinda connection between I'm gonna do good at school so that I can go to a good college, so that I can get a good job. Is that link, like, solidified? You know, what what have you found?
[00:01:46.79] - Laurie Kagay
So what I found is is, like, there's not even any question anymore about our college grads ready for the workplace. Most people are just saying no. They're not. They're not ready.
[00:01:59.00] - Gregg Garner
So at one time, there was a question…?
[00:02:00.59] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah. There was like, this is a questionable like, even in the studies, I saw, like, more like two thousand seventeen, eighteen people are like, is this working out? Things that are more like twenty one, twenty two, twenty three, studies and things. It's like one article I read was like, this is just commonplace wisdom now that they're emerging from college not ready.
[00:02:19.40] - Gregg Garner
That's interesting. That change happened over the course of about five years.
[00:02:22.30] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah. Wow. So, yeah, here's here's a few of the stats. Gallup, they have one called the higher education's work preparation paradox, and they said that ninety six percent of chief academic officers report that their college is very or somewhat effective in preparing students for work.
[00:02:38.59] - Jeff Sherrod
Because that's true.
[00:02:40.00] - Laurie Kagay
So ninety six percent, which is pretty overwhelming.
[00:02:43.69] - Gregg Garner
That’s the people whose job is dependent on whether…
[00:02:45.90] - Jeff Sherrod
or not that's the case. Right. So Are you doing a good job?
[00:02:49.30] - Laurie Kagay
Then they’re also called Americans generally. Like, how do Americans feel as far as their confidence in college to prepare people? Fourteen percent of Americans felt that college was getting people ready to graduate.
[00:03:00.59] - Jeff Sherrod
This this is a people getting people ready…
[00:03:03.19] - Gregg Garner
for the workplace after graduating.
[00:03:04.90] - Laurie Kagay
Students how effective is college in getting students ready for the workplace? Fourteen percent of just Americans generally. That's That's their sentiment. Yeah. That's their sentiment. And then if you go to business leaders or employers specifically, one in ten believe that college is getting people ready for the workplace.
[00:03:22.19] - Gregg Garner
That that sounds like something I can really
[00:03:25.80] - Laurie Kagay
One in ten percent.
[00:03:26.69] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. Because you I think that, Greg, I'm interested in having you on this one particularly. I mean, all of them, but, you know, you get to do kind of both sides of this one. Yeah. Yeah. You're a college administrator, president of a college, but also you're a business owner with many, many different companies.
[00:03:39.09] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:03:39.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Thousands of employees. I mean, what I don't know the number.
[00:03:50.80] - Laurie Kagay
between those working in higher ed and then people working with the actual graduates themselves. Yep. Likewise, here here's another study. It's from Inside Higher Ed. Forty nine percent of recent grads feel underqualified for entry level jobs.
[00:04:05.90] - Gregg Garner
Okay. Yikes.
[00:04:07.40] - Laurie Kagay
Yikes. Yeah. Forty nine percent.
[00:04:08.80] - Gregg Garner
So half …
[00:04:10.40] - Laurie Kagay
Of the graduates themselves.
[00:04:12.69] - Gregg Garner
Graduates are saying, I don't feel ready to start an entry level job.
[00:04:16.10] - Laurie Kagay
An entry level job. That's what I thought was interesting. Not even, like, to Yeah. Enter as a manager or anything like that. They're saying entry level.
[00:04:22.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:04:22.89] - Laurie Kagay
Forty nine percent. Three and four employers say they're having difficulty finding graduates with the soft skills they need.
[00:04:30.50] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. Soft skills. That's a that's a that's another arena of consideration, but nonetheless Right. Paramount of importance attached to them.
[00:04:38.89] - Laurie Kagay
And then two out of five, graduates regret their majors. Yeah. Straightforward. So when they graduate, two out of five don't even like what they studied.
[00:04:48.39] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:04:48.60] - Gregg Garner
Is that when they graduate or some years down the road? Because I'd imagine if you did the same survey five years down the road, you might even get a higher percentage.
[00:04:54.69] - Laurie Kagay
That's true. Yeah. I think it's recent grads was the study. So just pretty immediately after graduation, which is what I've seen even on social media and things. Like, they'll have people in their caps and gowns. Like, what did you graduate with? They're like, education. They're like, what are you gonna do? They're like, go back to school. Good. And they're like, why? They're like, because I hate teaching. And it but it's so sad to me because they've spent all this time.
[00:05:19.39] - Gregg Garner
Time and money.
[00:05:20.89] - Laurie Kagay
All of it. Yeah. Time, money, energy.
[00:05:24.00] - Gregg Garner
Your most valuable resources and time and energy.
[00:05:27.80] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah. Yeah. So colleges generally are trying to course correct for that. You know, they're they're also recognizing this isn't good. We're we're missing the mark here. They're trying to course correct. One researcher I found, he said even the course correction has a few problems. He notes three problems. One is a misunderstanding of the nature of the skills themselves. So, like, colleges are trying to correct it, but they may not even be in tune with the actual skills that are needed.
[00:05:55.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Is this sense there, it's like the market is moving faster than what colleges are able to keep up with?
[00:06:01.30] - Laurie Kagay
Yes. Okay. Or yeah. And I think, again, back to those soft skills as well. Because a lot of times, it's like when like, there's these charts I found too, which I think are are great and we can look at. But this shows, like, the disparity between what employers think is very important and the preparedness that students say they have in that particular skill.
[00:06:21.30] - Gregg Garner
Go go through them. Let's hear it.
[00:06:22.39] - Laurie Kagay
So okay. So oral communication. Employers say eighty one percent of employers say it's very important.
[00:06:30.10] - Gregg Garner
At, like, the top of importance. Right? Yes.
[00:06:32.30] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:06:32.60] - Laurie Kagay
This is the top rankings oral communication. Forty nine percent of grads feel very prepared.
[00:06:39.00] - Gregg Garner
So a thirty two percent discrepancy. Right. Yeah.
[00:06:42.19] - Laurie Kagay
So, yeah, the discrepancy between, again…
[00:06:44.69] - Jeff Sherrod
What employers want.
[00:06:45.80] - Laurie Kagay
Want and what graduates say they actually are capable of performing. Yeah. The next one, likewise, eighty one percent.
[00:06:53.69] - Gregg Garner
So right away, you can tell why this becomes tough for a college, especially if a college is going to be regulated by some kind of observing body
[00:07:03.10] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:07:03.50] - Gregg Garner
Because it's very difficult to, give accountability, maybe we'll put it that way…
[00:07:10.60] - Jeff Sherrod
Mhmm.
[00:07:11.00] - Gregg Garner
To something that's spoken rather than something that's written. And that's kind of the way our society works. Right? Like, you have to have paper trails for everything. You can tell somebody, hey. We're doing this thing, and then they'll it doesn't exist until you show it to them on paper.
[00:07:26.60] - Jeff Sherrod
Mhmm.
[00:07:27.39] - Gregg Garner
Right? Yeah. And if having the capacity in oral communication is the most highly valued thing by an employer, the only way people are gonna get any good at that is by practicing it. And at that point, if if your oral communication is based upon reading something you wrote down, I'm not sure that that works. Right. So, like Yeah.
[00:07:50.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Even colleges are certainly because of just the historical precedent. Right? Like, we're we're leaning into the written model here.
[00:07:56.00] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. But for employers, I mean, again, it's that's off the charts compared to anything else and has it.
[00:08:02.30] - Laurie Kagay
looks like the biggest discrepancy.
[00:08:03.69] - Gregg Garner
It does have the biggest discrepancy. Where colleges just aren't preparing students to engage in oral communications to any acceptable degree. Forty nine percent of people, it's less than half, feel like they're ready for that.
[00:08:15.60] - Jeff Sherrod
I I so one of the questions I have before we get into is, like, I wonder if you know, because colleges have continued to market students by marketing choice. Right? It's like, hey. You can come here. You can take this class or drop this class, this path or this path. I wonder if it's like you kinda shoot yourself in the foot a little bit with the with those kind of things. Like, maybe there are people at the colleges that know, hey. We need to get communication skills into these Yeah. Students. But then the student's like, I'm not gonna take that class, or I'm gonna avoid that.
[00:08:45.20] - Gregg Garner
Or Yeah. And it's such a interesting conundrum because a lot of schools that are competing specifically in the Christian space.
[00:08:56.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Mhmm.
[00:08:56.39] - Gregg Garner
Are competing to get students because having students at their school is what contributes to the revenue stream. Yeah. And so they're kinda having to dance with the culture. And if the culture is saying, young people want adventure and they want choices and they want autonomy and they wanna be able to say, this is what I wanna do. Then the school has to accommodate that expectation to some degree. But in the end, we look at the stats, and it's not working…
[00:09:24.10] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:09:24.39] - Gregg Garner
For the students. Right. Maybe it's working for the school on that side that they have. Yeah. I would imagine it's kinda working for the school. If, like, take for example, if this was just if the school was a business Mhmm. And I had a bunch of customers come to my business, first of all, there's not, like, a four to six year commitment to visit my business. Right. Right? And then even if you come and visit my business, I don't make it hard for you to transfer over to another business when you don't wanna use me anymore. Yeah. You you literally can just be like, we're done. Go move on. And then on top of that, at the end of the four to six year experience with my business, I'd probably be out of business if what was what was the stat again? 40 percent. Yeah. If forty percent of my, customers said that business didn't do anything for me.
[00:10:17.10] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:10:17.39] - Laurie Kagay
I'd be able to where it kinda feels like a trap. Like, people are like, is this worth it? You're not but you're kind of in it for so long.
[00:10:24.00] - Gregg Garner
I think lots of parents are already there. They're already like, is this worth it? it?
[00:10:27.29] - Jeff Sherrod
And I guess that's where it does hit colleges. You know, they can they can promise whatever they want for so long, but if it doesn't eventually deliver, then the bubble burst. Right?
[00:10:36.29] - Jeff Sherrod
People are, well, what are we doing here? I mean, I don't wanna take classes on bass fishing.
[00:10:40.00] - Gregg Garner
Wonder how long I just wonder how long it's gonna take for our society and culture to recognize that we're we're in a game that, doesn't work, and we just keep playing it. Because, really, like you said, the students said, we're just gonna go do more school. Yeah. So that's what ends up happening. Right? When when I know I was in high school, it was like, you gotta graduate high school, and you gotta go to college.
[00:11:09.60] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:11:10.29] - Gregg Garner
And the just getting an undergrad degree was gonna be the accomplishment. You made it happen. You know? But for my parents' generation, it was like graduating high school.
[00:11:19.70] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:11:19.89] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:11:20.60] - Laurie Kagay
They said I'm gonna get get…
[00:11:21.29] - Gregg Garner
get get a master's degree. Masters. You gotta get
[00:11:22.70] - Laurie Kagay
a master's degree. Yeah.
[00:11:23.39] - Gregg Garner
But then the master's is eventually gonna give way to a terminal degree.
[00:11:26.89] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:11:27.50] - Gregg Garner
And and now you're gonna have all these people with terminal degrees, which we do right now. I wonder if you have any stats on that. People who've achieved terminal degrees and are still searching for jobs or or maybe find that the cost of time and expense didn't match the reward of Mhmm. What it is that they're going to get in terms of creating value.
[00:11:46.60] - Jeff Sherrod
I don't know about stats, but but Peter Enns, you know, he's a scholar. He he recently wrote something and said he thinks it's unethical for some of these colleges to continue to offer PhDs in theology. He was like because he was like, unless you just tell them on the beginning, there will be no jobs. Yeah. You will not find work in this field. And he's like, we're just we're putting out numbers of these PhDs.
[00:12:10.60] - Gregg Garner
At least let them know that the there's gonna be such high competition.
[00:12:15.10] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:12:15.89] - Gregg Garner
Because, obviously, the schools can produce people to go back into their schools and teach at their schools. And and even there are associations that regulate according to those things. Right?
[00:12:26.79] - Laurie Kagay
Mhmm.
[00:12:27.60] - Gregg Garner
They you have to have a terminal degree to teach in at a a master's level Yeah. For most, if not all, accrediting associations
[00:12:37.10] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:12:37.70] - Gregg Garner
In the in the United States and probably internationally. So it's like, yeah. This dude is is speaking a fact. Right. Like that. I
[00:12:46.00] - Jeff Sherrod
mean, because, you know, some of these theological schools are closing, just increases competition.
[00:12:50.20] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:12:51.39] - Jeff Sherrod
You know? Yeah. Just makes it so I think even at for some of those fields, for sure, that's the case. They're graduating and not getting jobs.
[00:12:59.39] - Gregg Garner
So when I was younger, I I I don't know if I knew how to think about college. Yeah. I resolved that I just needed to get the paper. That getting the piece of paper, getting that diploma was going to now, I guess, get people off my back because I had vision for what I wanted to do. Mhmm. I I even had, some some, you know, ambition and and drive to accomplish what it was that I had seen, and college felt like the obstacle. What I would say college was good for for me personally was the, relationships I developed at school. It gave me a place with like minded people because it was a Christian school and, who shared values
[00:13:44.00] - Laurie Kagay
Mhmm.
[00:13:44.50] - Gregg Garner
Of Jesus. Yeah. And, also, it it helped me to create a network of friends because we were kinda clustered together for several years and had to work through conflict and things like that. So that was That's probably my big value taking.
[00:13:59.50] - Laurie Kagay
And I think that is still even what employers are saying. Like, even those who are on the side of, like, it okay. It is a benefit, are largely, like, it's the sociability that someone gains in college. It's the, you know, I think, respectfulness, and it's a lot of the soft skills things, and then the fact that you are maturing in a, you know, in a system for four years. Whereas with kind of the freelance culture or whatever, everyone's kind of working for themselves, you know, coming Yeah. Going as much as possible that employers are recognizing, like I I thought it was interesting. Even the sociability of a college experience is a benefit, for the long term, like, in the workplace. Yeah. So that is a you know, that is something that people are recognizing.
[00:14:41.10] - Gregg Garner
I I went to the call I went to college in the nineties. And in the nineties, although the Internet was out, it it wasn't, what it is saying.
[00:14:50.50] - Laurie Kagay
Pervasive. Right?
[00:14:51.79] - Gregg Garner
But I know that in going to college, entering into my program, taking a few classes related to the major that I wanted, taking most classes connected to what they call general studies, it was much about knowledge acquisition. In other words, I was going to be utilizing the resources that the college had available in its big libraries.
[00:15:14.50] - Laurie Kagay
Right.
[00:15:15.10] - Gregg Garner
And, those libraries would allow me to look at slides, check out videos, records, all the different kinds of things because I didn't have access to all of that information. And I'd go into these general studies classes, and it would literally just be exposure to new knowledge bases Yeah. Unrelated to anything I was going to do in the future, but they were trying to, I don't know, make me well rounded. Now you look at a student that's going into college today, and they can literally say, Alexa, tell me what was Shakespeare's play concerning this.
[00:15:49.29] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:15:50.00] - Gregg Garner
And then next thing you know, they're gonna get answers. So knowledge acquisition is so fast and so easy now. Right. With AI out Right. You you can, I I mean, it it's just phenomenal, the blazing speeds that AI can answer some of the knowledge based questions that we're just trying to transmit to students over the course of a general education? And then when we go into further studies about, like, memory retention with respect to these things that people learn, I don't know where what it is for the college space, but I know that in the United States for k through twelve
[00:16:19.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Mhmm.
[00:16:19.79] - Gregg Garner
After a year after graduation, most students, like the grand majority of students, retain less than five percent of all the knowledge that was transferred to them in k through twelve. Less than five percent. Awesome. Yeah. So, you you can, of course, move that percentage.
[00:16:36.89] - Laurie Kagay
Mhmm.
[00:16:37.79] - Gregg Garner
And and there's always gonna be exceptions and outliers. But most people just don't remember things that they're not using with any kind of frequency.
[00:16:46.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:16:46.50] - Gregg Garner
So you go back another hundred years, and while there were universities, those universities, again, existed to really separate the classes in a non class society. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. The military reflected that very clearly when you either got on a track that puts you with what they would colloquially call the grunts, which were the ones that aren't going to get a college education.
[00:17:11.70] - Laurie Kagay
Mhmm.
[00:17:12.09] - Gregg Garner
And you could not enter into the ranks of college educated officers
[00:17:17.20] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:17:17.29] - Laurie Kagay
Right.
[00:17:18.00] - Gregg Garner
Unless you went to college. So you have that model where college is is supposed to elevate the consciousness…
[00:17:26.09] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah.
[00:17:26.29] - Gregg Garner
Of of students, and it's supposed to put them into another type of class or caliber of capacity because the university system or the college system was, like, the holder of information. They had all the knowledge. Yeah. Where today, a student can just have a YouTube account. Right. Be a homeschool kid with a YouTube account and become a master of knowledge with respect to Roman imperial history.
[00:17:55.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Yes.
[00:17:55.40] - Gregg Garner
They literally could have all the information they need from YouTube, sit there, geek out for the longest time, and then probably battle with a university professor.
[00:18:06.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:18:06.20] - Gregg Garner
Right. Based upon the knowledge that they have. But what so in academia, we're that's what we check. Right? That's what we test on. Did you get the knowledge right? Did here, you didn't get the knowledge right. But in life and at work, it's not about the knowledge. It's about application of the knowledge. Mhmm. It's your ability to take a piece of information and then reappropriate it into the world around you. So small commercial for bible colleges. That's why learning to read the bible is so important because learning to read the bible is not just about the acquisition of knowledge. Yeah. That's why bible knowledge exams are mind blowing to me. Like, I could give a rip if you can tell me who was the fifth king of Judah. Can you tell me what, implication the life of the fifth king of Judah has on who we are today and how we appropriate that wisdom to how we work things out. And I know a good academic is gonna say, yeah. I'm gonna I want you to put that into the application part of your paper. But but even at that point, like, the the the system again is just feels so archaic Yeah. Compared to where we're at right now because all of this knowledge is now outside of the university system. It's outside of the college system. Knowledge acquisition is easy now. Mhmm. You don't even have to have a lot of resources. You just need an Internet connection. But what is not easy is learning what to do with that knowledge or learning how to sift through the knowledge. Yeah. Right. Learning how to take that knowledge and identify how you could make it make sense to others so they could participate in it, which is what work is. Right.
[00:19:36.90] - Laurie Kagay
That's what our job is. That reminds me of this other chart. It says the percentage of employers who indicated a disposition that's very important for success in the workplace. And just to, like, note the top five things they consider most important.
[00:19:49.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:19:49.40] - Laurie Kagay
Drive and work ethic.
[00:19:50.50] - Gregg Garner
Mhmm.
[00:19:51.59] - Laurie Kagay
Motivation and initiative, resilience and persistence, self awareness, emotional intelligence, which I don't feel like any of those five you can get on YouTube. Like, you can't get them in through purely the knowledge acquisition aspect.
[00:20:05.40] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:20:05.70] - Laurie Kagay
It's all through, like, this has to be grown in a person.
[00:20:09.20] - Gregg Garner
But I'm not sure you get it necessarily at college either. Yeah. Maybe not. Your your college has to be very intentional.
[00:20:16.00] - Laurie Kagay
Right. And And
[00:20:16.29] - Gregg Garner
And And you have to to
[00:20:16.50] - Jeff Sherrod
to to balance those those
[00:20:16.90] - Gregg Garner
those those five things.
[00:20:17.29] - Jeff Sherrod
You have to give those five things…
[00:20:18.00] - Gregg Garner
because I'm curious.
[00:20:19.20] - Laurie Kagay
Drive and work ethic.
[00:20:20.09] - Gregg Garner
Drive and work ethic. How does a college put that into somebody except through some kind of, like, motivational talk? But most human beings are driven by a reward. Yeah. Right. They they wanna be rewarded.
[00:20:32.09] - Laurie Kagay
Right.
[00:20:32.29] - Gregg Garner
And and how do you how do you reward a customer, except by your product? And if your product is knowledge and knowledge is so readily available, I think that means it's deflating. So let me let me put another one. So I'm a student. I'm paying to go to your school. Now I I want to know about something. K? Because I'm interested. Yeah. I would like to know if all I give the person is what it was they could have found for themselves. At that point, I'm just giving them a venue to do the work that they weren't disciplined enough on their own to make happen. And then maybe on top of that, I'm gonna give them a paper the end that other people have said means that the study you did meant something. Right. Yeah. I think that's where most people are at. Otherwise, if if I'm going to work with this student, I have to give them something that they can't get on their own. There has to be something somewhat proprietary…
[00:21:28.09] - Jeff Sherrod
Mhmm.
[00:21:28.50] - Gregg Garner
About what it is that I'm offering the student, and I have to spell it out. Because like I said, I went to college. I I I I needed someone to frame the experience for me. I needed someone to say, listen. Going to college, you need to develop a network of people that you can call friends, that you can dream together and look to the future with and figure out how to make sense of life and your calling in Christ. On top of that, the there will be a benefit for you getting that degree. So you don't need straight a's, but you just need to pass everything. So prioritize your time so so that you you can do that. You're not gonna get scholarships in the master's programs necessarily, but you are going to maybe need a certain GPA. So don't fall below that threshold.
[00:22:10.09] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:22:10.50] - Gregg Garner
And just give me some advice. Give me some ways to work around this. Get involved in extracurriculars. There's opportunities to travel. There's opportunities with respect to maybe even getting mentorship from someone who will actually look at your life and speak into your life. Go after that. If someone would have framed that for me, I think it would have been a a better experience. And I think some colleges are believing themselves to frame the college Mhmm. Trajectory experience for students. But when I meet a lot of students, not just at our school, all over the place. And in my experience, they still don't know why they're there or what's the advantage. They all believe that they're going to be able to do the thing they're majoring in when they're done. Right. And that is a crazy misconception.
[00:22:53.20] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah.
[00:22:53.70] - Gregg Garner
To think that you're gonna go to an undergrad program, get a communications degree or a journalism degree, and then be able to to report immediately for some kind of newspaper or, media outlet without some additional, like, training and apprenticeship. Because, again, like I said, we go back a hundred years ago, and it's pure apprentice models. Yep. Right? A hundred and fifty years ago. All apprenticeship models. You wanna do something in a certain profession, you're gonna get in there, and you're gonna start working. So you have a graduate now. They graduate. What's the average debt? Did you get that on there? Where I know that we have other statistics, like, thirty two thousand…
[00:23:32.29] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah. I think private colleges, they're saying more like fifty seven.
[00:23:35.50] - Gregg Garner
Fifty seven thousand. So you're talking
[00:23:37.09] - Laurie Kagay
about regular call must in the thirties.
[00:23:39.50] - Gregg Garner
Thousand bucks, ten year payback. We're we're talking about, like, a eight hundred to nine hundred dollar a month payment. So now you have students who graduate. On the one hand, if if their degree puffed them up, they think they're well deserving of something more if they're unaware of how economics work or business work.
[00:23:56.79] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah. They They
[00:23:57.20] - Gregg Garner
They They they're gonna look out there and then go, I'm not gonna accept anything below, twenty five dollars an hour or sixty k a year or whatever it is. Yeah. And they have all this confidence. They get in there. They get the job because they had all this confidence, and they had the paper. And maybe the HR people or whatever of the new job was just trying to get folks in. The the person now doesn't perform well. They can recognize it's not a good fit. They quit, but now they have on their resume, and they worked for this other place.
[00:24:24.40] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah.
[00:24:24.59] - Gregg Garner
Now another place looks and sees they worked at that place, and they keep faking it for the next, like, ten years until they finally learn the job. Right. And they didn't learn it as solo.
[00:24:33.09] - Laurie Kagay
Stats there too. It's like their capacity to get a job was high. Their capacity to do the job Yes. Is so much lower. And it's like they're well trained to get to get the job.
[00:24:43.70] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:24:44.00] - Laurie Kagay
And it's, yeah…
[00:24:45.20] - Gregg Garner
It’s a terrible feeling. Employer, you hate that.
[00:24:47.00] - Laurie Kagay
Right. Because It's terrible for employers.
[00:24:49.00] - Gregg Garner
If if they graduated debt free, you could start them at a wage that made sense for the business and for them. Right. But they don't. They graduate with this major bill to pay back.
[00:24:58.70] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. And And a certain amount they have to make.
[00:25:01.79] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. And and and the entitlement they believe themselves to have because they went through the rigor of getting that master's degree
[00:25:08.20] - Jeff Sherrod
Mhmm.
[00:25:08.50] - Gregg Garner
Or whatever it is. And and I'm not trying to be harsh in talking about this. This is just the reality for an employer who's looking at you and is saying, I don't care that you went to college or wherever you went. This other guy over here has been doing it here for two years, and why should you get paid more than she's getting paid? Because she knows our system, and she knows the job. And the only thing you did was create debt for yourself so that now you have to be paid more, and you have a piece of paper from an institution that we don't know and doesn't know us. Like, that but that's how our system works. Yeah. And people just feel like they're just resigned to it. This is what it has to be.
[00:25:47.40] - Jeff Sherrod
If someone's listening to this and they're like, alright. What if I did instead of college then, I just do, like, a gap year program? And, you know, I find some friends for a year. We live together. And then after that, then I go find a job and just don't accumulate any debt. You know? If your goal
[00:26:02.59] - Gregg Garner
is to not accumulate debt, I don't I'm not even sure that's this is the podcast for you. We're not talking about, not accumulate debt. If you're gonna accumulate debt, you do have to have a plan to pay the debt back. Right?
[00:26:14.90] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:26:15.20] - Gregg Garner
And that's why people want to accumulate debt strategically. If if you like, accumulating debt for a a biblical studies degree is foolishness. Right. There are no jobs. Yeah. You're gonna have to go on to more school. Mhmm. Yeah. Like, that's that's foolishness. That's why we, get it so that our students don't have any debt when they graduate because we get that.
[00:26:35.59] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:26:35.90] - Gregg Garner
Alright? But, you know, there there are other investments. Like, you get a a business undergrad business degree. It's probably not a bad idea for you if, you accumulate debt because at that point, most institutions who are hiring people recognize that the internships that are made available to business students and the fact that they they have learned a few things along the way puts them at least into an entry level, position. And business makes money, so you have revenue to expense, and you're able to deal with the inflation of things and recognize, okay. And that's when I think businesses start looking at the other things, other other referential points in your resume outside of just your degree.
[00:27:16.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:27:16.20] - Laurie Kagay
Well, yeah, that's make another stat in here. Like, seven in ten seven in ten employers indicated they'd be more much more likely to hire a candidate who held a job or work study position, completed an internship or apprenticeship, or held a leadership role.
[00:27:29.50] - Gregg Garner
Seven out of ten.
[00:27:30.00] - Laurie Kagay
Seven out ten.
[00:27:30.40] - Gregg Garner
So seventy percent of employers are gonna be looking for something beyond the degree Right. To hire somebody. Yeah. Love that.
[00:27:37.70] - Laurie Kagay
I know. I thought that was a great one.
[00:27:39.20] - Gregg Garner
So wouldn't it be cool if they could do that at college?
[00:27:42.40] - Laurie Kagay
Right.
[00:27:42.79] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:27:43.40] - Gregg Garner
And and this is why I for me, I I I like I enjoy my job as a president of a college because I get to make an impact. I get to make decisions, and I don't mind those decisions being disruptive to how people understand how education, should be going. Because I I I really think and it sounds like these stats support this, that if a student is going to go to college just to get a degree, it's a waste of time. Yeah. They have to have in mind what it is that they're gonna do. The problem is they're young, and they don't know what they wanna do. And so you get going, and the the the momentum on everything is pushing you to have to finish the thing that maybe you started that you didn't even want. Like, you talked about that Mhmm. Student who got an education degree Right. Doesn't wanna do education anymore. So, like, I can go do more school. So, our our program
[00:28:38.70] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:28:39.09] - Gregg Garner
It it has a built in opportunity for students to figure that all out while they're in school before they've even locked down what we would traditionally call a major. And then on top of that, they will be able to add to the resume the professional certifications that they will achieve and also demonstrate the the internship and apprenticeships that they have as a result of the program. And with ours, that all happens in the context of a biblical studies degree. Right. So you're learning the the
[00:29:12.00] - Laurie Kagay
the the Bible. What blows people's mind. They're like, I can learn the Bible. Like, I got into this, phone call with a parent the other day, and they were so heated because they were like, I don't want my kid to learn the Bible because what job is he gonna have at the end? Yeah. But I got to explain, well, at our school, he could actually have a a wide variety of jobs with a Bible degree. Yeah. And we have, you know, the data to show it. And, you know, it was it was such a I enjoyed the conversation because you could tell she loved her kids so much, but she came, like, ready to fight. But I was like, alright. Well, you know, we'll go for this. And by the end, she was like, okay. Well well, when can we come for a visit? Yeah. That's great. And it was but it was like And you want parents…
[00:29:49.00] - Gregg Garner
who are gonna fight for their kids. So they don't want their kids to be put in position where things are harder for them than it was for their parents.
[00:29:55.40] - Laurie Kagay
So it was a it was a surprise that it could be a bible school
[00:29:59.20] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:29:59.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:29:59.70] - Laurie Kagay
And have all of these potentials at the end because people don't think those the two things can exist in one place.
[00:30:04.79] - Gregg Garner
Because what ends up happening is the wisdom of the day says that's true. If they go to school for bible, they're not gonna have a job. It's better for them. First, go get a job Mhmm. And get your degree that you can get a job so that you have something to fall back on when you do go to school and when you do learn the Bible. But another thing is happening too is people think that you can teach the Bible in some of these, like, church certification programs that are, like, just, putting you through, I don't know, a a few semesters of a they'll call it an internship.
[00:30:36.70] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:30:37.09] - Gregg Garner
And then they'll have somebody on the pastoral staff that's teaching devotion like Bible experiences. And now a student gets done, and they're like, I know I know the Bible, when they they don't.
[00:30:48.90] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:30:49.29] - Gregg Garner
And they they've just gotten this, like, indoctrination from whatever little system they got put into. Now, that I'm sure there are exceptions to that. I'm sure there are some out there. I don't know what they are. I haven't seen one yet. But most of what I have seen, has it so that the the student in the end still has to go do something else before they can even be put in a position to add value to the world around them, which is part of God's mandate for us at the outset. think it's important to remember that when the Bible introduces the human being in the second chapter of Genesis, that the issue is whether or not work would be done.
[00:31:30.59] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:31:31.00] - Gregg Garner
It highlights that there's no productivity in the garden because God had not yet caused it to rain, and the man was not there to work. Mhmm. And so from that point on, the creation of the human being is has has an end that some work needed to be done. And when God saw that it wasn't good for that man to be alone, it was within the context of the work that he had to do. Yeah. And the work was twofold. One, the technology of animals would be appropriate to help him with the kind of what we would call occupational work that he would be doing. So he could fulfill the expectation God had to make it a productive garden that was a a beautiful place to live. Mhmm. And the animals were gonna be good for that. But there's no helper among the animals suitable for what we would call the vocational thing that God wanna do, and that's create families and communities. Yeah. And so God gave the man his wife so they could create the families and communities. And that together, that family and community could enact the kind of work that would, make a beautiful world and productive world. Even that's part of the the issue that we get at the the tree with the woman. She's looking at the the fruit on the tree, and she's has this desire. There's some kind of wisdom connected to it. There's gonna be a success. She could achieve that. It's it's sustainable. It's good for food. It looks beautiful. Like, she could finally grasp and have all that. But after God addresses them, after they both she and the man who was with her, as it says Right. Takes of the fruit, we now see that God just iterates and reiterates to the man, you're still gonna work.
[00:33:08.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:33:08.79] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah.
[00:33:09.29] - Gregg Garner
You're still gonna have to work, and you're still gonna and I know some people are like, well, before the fall, there weren't any thorns. There's nothing in the bible that says that. The the the thorns weren't created to keep to make man's life miserable. The the the thorns have another purpose in in creation with respect to keeping the flower and, you you know, there's biological purposes for that. The point of that text is that it seems the man wanted to get away and the woman, the toil of work is tough. Yeah. The toil of occupation and for the woman, the toil of raising a family, these are tough things. Mhmm. If if there was a knowledge base that could help me escape that, that I could grasp, let's get it. How can I be like God? How can I, have this power over my own mortality? And, they it was deceptive. Right? They were deceived. You can't we as human beings, we're gonna have to work. We're We're gonna have to work occupationally. We're gonna have to work vocationally. In other words, we're gonna have to work a job, and we're gonna have to be part of a family and community. Mhmm. And that's work too. Right. Yeah. But God created us for this. Yeah. In the fourth chapter of Genesis, when you look at Cain, this is part of the issue. Right? He at the end of his harvest, that the deuce the season's ready. He brings a sacrifice. His little brother brings sacrifice, and God doesn't have any regard for it. It and it's it when people think about that, they're like, oh, that's because he didn't bring a lamb, and Abel brought a lamb, and God wants a lamb. And there's nothing in the text that communicates any of that. Instead, what we learned in reading the text is that it seems the psychology of Cain was that there would be some alleviation of the toil. Like, that was his expectation. If I give to God this sacrifice, I I could be alleviated from the toil. And then God, not having regard for what he did, probably, manifested for him in that he sowed again and got back just as much. Mhmm. And maybe he considered Abel, sacrifice something God had regard for because, of course, the lambs, the sheep multiplied.
[00:35:06.80] - Laurie Kagay
Mhmm.
[00:35:06.90] - Gregg Garner
And he's like, wow. God cares about that over there. And so for him, getting into that place where he can't, again, shortcut the toil, gets him angry.
[00:35:17.69] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:35:18.09] - Gregg Garner
And and God knows it. Further evidence for that would be that, after he's he's, exiled, he himself creates that settlement Mhmm. That, is designed. It's the first city in human history, and it's designed to alleviate his family from the toil. Yeah. So much so that seven generations down, you look at Lamech, and the dude is definitely alleviated from the toil and has amassed incredible amounts of power. So human beings have to recognize that god created us to work.
[00:35:52.00] - Laurie Kagay
Mhmm.
[00:35:52.80] - Gregg Garner
And so Bible institutions in particular have to surrender into that expectation from God and figure out how to make it so that their institutions can produce people who can make the world a more beautiful place that that is productive, which again are those two elements in in Genesis. So I think that as a Bible college, that that should be our responsibility. And teaching the bible is going to give our students the faith values, including the ones we're just talking about that that I think would give them what are these things on here again? The the drive and motivation. Right?
[00:36:31.30] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah.
[00:36:31.59] - Gregg Garner
They're gonna get the drive and work ethic because they believe that they were designed that way by god and that god is actually glorified when we when we live out the the kind of work that brings transformation to our world. The motivation and initiative is the other one on here. Of course, you teach God's word. They get filled with his spirit. They get connected to the great thing that he wants to do in the world. Now they're motivated to be a part of it, and then their ethics get shaped
[00:36:55.40] - Laurie Kagay
Right.
[00:36:55.80] - Gregg Garner
By the righteousness.
[00:36:57.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Yep.
[00:36:57.09] - Gregg Garner
That doesn't come from themselves because of God's resilience and persistence. Trying to usher in the kingdom of God, man, Jesus would say in, Matthew eleven that people who try to usher that in, they actually experience persecution or suffering. And the Jesus would say in Matthew five on the Sermon on the Mount, blessed are you when you can when you are persecuted. People mock you alive. Like, you have to become resilient. Self awareness. Of course, Jesus is the great teacher who said, hey. Before you pick out that Right. Log in somebody else or that speck in somebody else, get the log out of your own life. Self awareness is imperative prior to judgment. And then finally, emotional intelligence. There's nobody who's gonna be able to read the word of God and not develop capacity for emotion because we recognize that we did not invent emotions, but created in God's image. God is the one who even in the Bible, even though some folks academically might argue it's anthropomorphic, nonetheless, we translate the emotions of God into words that now we find ourselves experiencing. And then the Bible helps us to understand what to do with it. Things like you can be angry and not sin. That's like a revelation to students. Right? You I just thought being angry was bad. No. No. No. No. You can be angry. You just don't sin. Well, what does that mean? Great question. Let's explore that. Right? And I'll tell you what. One of the tests I've been doing with AI is I I because I keep being hearing from everybody. And I know you went to a seminar where someone was saying, AI does our sermons better than us and does our bible teaching better than us.
[00:38:23.40] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah. It was it was Ben Reese who went to that seminar. But, yeah, they were sold on it.
[00:38:27.00] - Jeff Sherrod
They They were Yeah. Like, if it does the sermon better than you, then why do
[00:38:29.09] - Laurie Kagay
you why do you even exist?
[00:38:30.80] - Gregg Garner
Well Yeah. Yeah. So so I keep putting in my different sermon prompts to see if it'll do better. And I'm so thankful it doesn't. It doesn't at all. All it's doing is grabbing from what's existing on the web and then putting it out there, but but the the word of God's alive.
[00:38:45.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Right. It
[00:38:45.80] - Gregg Garner
it's it's not something that you can just turn into facts that AI can all of a sudden make sense of. Like, God's spirit needs to be in a person.
[00:38:55.09] - Jeff Sherrod
Mhmm. Right.
[00:38:55.59] - Gregg Garner
Because God doesn't dwell in these temples made by hands. And as far as I knew, AI is developed by human beings. Yeah. Right? And our students, they are the temple of the living God. They're the ones who need to build that word. So I still am of the opinion. You teach a person the Bible, they will be better in their workspace than anyone else.
[00:39:15.50] - Laurie Kagay
Right.
[00:39:15.69] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:39:16.00] - Gregg Garner
They they will they will be better as well in terms of the vocational responsibility of family and community because you taught them the word of God.
[00:39:23.09] - Laurie Kagay
That's right.
[00:39:23.59] - Gregg Garner
I'm just excited for our school to have an another decade under its belt so that, we have more of the stats to demonstrate this. But we already got a good handful Yeah. We do. We do. That, are for some people, not not that important. But for anybody who's thinking reasonably, should be exceptionally important, such as, all of our students graduate without any debt. Mhmm. That all of our students will graduate with a job offer. Yeah. Not not, this is not a hypothetical. They will. Now they can choose not to accept the job. Right. That's on them, but it's a job offer
[00:39:57.80] - Laurie Kagay
Mhmm.
[00:39:58.19] - Gregg Garner
Which gosh. Did you have any stats on that? How many students graduate and they're still
[00:40:02.00] - Laurie Kagay
No. I have to look still there.
[00:40:03.30] - Gregg Garner
A job? Yeah. The last I looked, they're they're still relatively high. Our students will will graduate with a a conscious network
[00:40:13.59] - Jeff Sherrod
of
[00:40:13.80] - Gregg Garner
people and mentors who can move forward with them as they take those next steps.
[00:40:18.90] - Jeff Sherrod
Mhmm.
[00:40:19.19] - Gregg Garner
Whether it is to further their education or it's to jump into some kind of work venture that is going to make sense of Jesus' prayer that God's kingdom would be on earth as it is in heaven. It's it's exciting. It It
[00:40:32.90] - Jeff Sherrod
It It is. It is.
[00:40:34.09] - Gregg Garner
And I feel like I believe that it's our responsibility as believers to lead the way in all of this. Right.
[00:40:41.59] - Laurie Kagay
That's what I was just gonna say. Like, everything you're noting right now, yeah, that's not that's not guaranteed at any college anywhere, but it it could be. It is guaranteed at a Bible college if they're doing things right and they're doing things according to how the the word is guiding us to do. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's They become the leaders.
[00:40:56.09] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:40:56.30] - Jeff Sherrod
It's just even what these employers are saying, like, the hard work, the motivation, we could just say they want spiritually mature believers. Like, that's what they're really looking for.
[00:41:04.59] - Gregg Garner
That's what they're yeah. They don't know to say that, but that's what they're looking for. Yeah. Yeah. So I have a I have a friend. She's a fellow president at, Kuyper College, and they started a work program. They're part of a the work consortium schools, I believe. And, their program's called, Kyper Works. And it's it's somewhat similar to our our pro dev program. They maybe have a limited amount of jobs that they offer, and I think all of their jobs are just on campus. They they could have updated that, but from last I knew that was the case. But I was so pumped that they were doing that.
[00:41:35.80] - Laurie Kagay
Right.
[00:41:36.19] - Gregg Garner
Because it it is speaking towards the need that does exist Right.
[00:41:43.40] - Laurie Kagay
And when I've looked at those work consortium schools, they are almost always faith based. Like and so you do feel proud of that. Like, it's the people who understand that work and learning go together.
[00:41:53.80] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:41:54.59] - Jeff Sherrod
Kind of It's impossible to prepare people without preparing them. But so we're, like, preparing people for work, but we're like, we're not gonna actually do any of that while we're doing it.
[00:42:04.69] - Laurie Kagay
Said is some of the problem is, like, your faculty at typical colleges, your faculty is even unaware or not, you know, not in cahoots with what's actually required in a business world.
[00:42:14.90] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:42:15.19] - Laurie Kagay
Where I think yeah. I was thinking about our, our faculty and even you specifically having started so many businesses, employed so many people. Like, there isn't that disconnect or that gap.
[00:42:25.19] - Gregg Garner
Having having enrolled in other programs at other universities, I think that's the thing that's most irritating to me is, like, I'm being taught. I've been taught by people who've never done
[00:42:35.30] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah.
[00:42:35.69] - Gregg Garner
What it is, and I've done it. And and now they're they're trying to tell me based upon a book that's, like, ten years old that I'm wrong, and I need to further read something else that's ten years old Yeah. To get the answers. And and but I can't argue with them.
[00:42:52.90] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah.
[00:42:53.30] - Gregg Garner
I did one time, and the the the school disciplined me. Yes. And it's like, this is ridiculous. And I just went to the school. I don't need you. I'm taking these units somewhere else. But it it's it's like, there there are several incidences that led up to that, but I I don't understand that at all. But I think you're right. There is that major gap there because most academics have been on an academic track from the outset, which I so we have a rule, right, that less than ten percent of our faculty or less than ten percent of the units being taught in a term would be taught by people without, the terminal degree appropriate for their field. Right?
[00:43:36.09] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. I mean, they still have to, be prepared for it. You know, they have to show documented expertise. Yeah. Documented expertise. If if less than ten percent of them can have not have the degree score.
[00:43:48.09] - Gregg Garner
Even the way you're approaching this right now, I can tell you're like, let me protect this this concept because we worked really hard to keep it below ten percent. But I'm like, ten percent feels so low. I feel like it should be, like, fifty percent, maybe seventy percent. Because if you really wanna help students do something in a specific field, you need someone to teach it who's been in that field for twenty years. Not who's been studying it for twenty years. Someone who's been doing it for twenty years.
[00:44:12.69] - Jeff Sherrod
And because
[00:44:13.09] - Gregg Garner
there’s a big difference. Right. And but, like, I I is there is there an actual policy guideline for crediting associations that says, hey. You gotta keep it below a certain percentage.
[00:44:22.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Twenty percent.
[00:44:23.09] - Gregg Garner
Twenty percent. So why are we such overachievers keeping it below ten? Why can't we push….?
[00:44:27.30] - Jeff Sherrod
Because it looks awesome, and we have people that have both, really. Like, we have people that I mean, I mean That's real. In in in our situation, I think we have people that were were using people who both have degrees.
[00:44:38.40] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:44:38.90] - Jeff Sherrod
And people who have the professional expertise in in a lot of different Well, I'm
[00:44:42.90] - Gregg Garner
I'm glad we're doing that, but an example. Shouldn't be afraid to get to twenty percent if twenty percent is the limit.
[00:44:48.19] - Laurie Kagay
Like, Chris, who's filming the podcast. He came into our office earlier, and he's gonna teach a class on filmmaking. Mhmm. And this was a discussion where he's like, I need you to send over your CV where Chris has a master's degree.
[00:44:58.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:44:59.09] - Laurie Kagay
In theology, but he also has been, you know, doing film, which is what he's gonna teach for all this time. So it's like we needed both. Yeah.
[00:45:05.80] - Gregg Garner
I mean and and he's not just been, like, iPhone camera filming
[00:45:09.59] - Laurie Kagay
No.
[00:45:09.80] - Gregg Garner
Anything. You know?
[00:45:10.80] - Laurie Kagay
Like president Carter.
[00:45:11.90] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. He's, like, filming lots of names. Then we we'd just be this would be a name dropping episode if we gave Chris's CV with film. Some of my personal favorites, Steven Curtis Chapman Mhmm. Cece Winans. Wish I was there for that one. He even even that he filmed one that I thought was fun with Toby Mac, and he was just cuddled up on a a little sofa couch. Wow. That was fun. But Chris Chris has has a great CV. But, yeah, he also has a master's degree.
[00:45:40.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:45:40.69] - Gregg Garner
In theology, and he does teach school. So props to you, Jeff, in that we're keeping it below ten percent, but I I'm just saying, like like, things are gonna have to shift. Yeah. We're gonna have to get to the place where we recognize that knowledge is easy now. Yeah. We are no longer the guardians of knowledge in our institution. We are now the guardians of implementation, process consideration. Yeah. How it is that people now appropriate and navigate for us their faith in any context. We that's part of our mission statement as the institute. Right? Right.
[00:46:10.50] - Gregg Garner
We want them to be able to be Christians in the workspace, and then we want them to be able to lead the way. Right. Shine light on people, fulfill the great commission even in work. Jes us was looking for laborers. He wasn't looking for, he he he strategically used that term. Right? He wants people who are gonna get to do do the work. Yeah. And the work is not limited to what we traditionally call Christian ministry. And I think that's a big perception when it comes to our bible school in particular. We're not training your kids to be bible thumping, pulpit standing preachers necessarily. Some will. I am. Some will. But we're training the grand majority of these students with with the word of God that is going to empower them in such a way that they are alive, aware, engaged, motivated, discerning, and they can jump in and figure it all out. Because we're talking about Crystal's master's degree, but he also went to our undergrad at our school.
[00:47:12.19] - Gregg Garner
And he he did not have formal training in film. Right. Yeah. Right? But he had training in God's word and became that kind of person that was able to jump on top of this. And, I'm so thankful for students like Chris who are graduates with I mean, he graduated, I don't know, two thousand eleven, twelve. He's not his head. So it was a it was a while ago. But I'm so thankful that we have graduates like that who could even testify and say, biblical education. Like, the top one of the most popular, integrative health providers in the Southeast region of the United States is one of our graduates, one of our alumni, and she will testify straightforward. Jamie will say, I am so thankful I got my bible education before I went further.
[00:47:59.19] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:47:59.59] - Gregg Garner
And got my, you know, advanced medical education. And and I love that testimony. I love I love hearing because that's our philosophy, and that's our green. And I hope parents and students can begin to get if you want to have your kid excel, if you want them to be in that position where they are leading the way, shining the light, helping people to see what it is they couldn't see, They're not gonna get there without Jesus. Amen. That's right. And I don't mean, like, in some religious sense where they're they, like, are avid church course. You gotta watch out when that happens because sometimes, I I get I get real cautious with some of these church internship programs where they're going to the church and they're they believe themselves to be getting something in bible, and really all they're becoming are the intern AV texts for for the church, or they're they're learning how to put together slideshows or stuff like that. Mhmm. And I'm not saying that there's not a place for that. I'm sure there is, and I hope people aren't hearing me in terms of extremes. I'm just saying there should be a concern there. That's why we care about regulating bodies. That's why we're all about accountability and accrediting associations because we want someone to be able to look in and say, yeah. This is this is legitimate. But once you're legitimized, you have to have substance. There has to actually be something there, and it has to work. And what I'm pumped about is a a a future that's in the present. What I mean by that is, for many people, the resolves they're making right now are with respect to things that should have been done 10:15 years ago.
[00:49:29.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:49:29.69] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. And what I believe we're doing at the institute is doing what should be done right now.
[00:49:35.30] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:49:35.69] - Gregg Garner
Where where what most people are gonna do ten to fifteen years from now. And I've been in the game long enough, and you guys have actually been in the game with me long enough to know this wouldn't be our first rodeo being a decade ahead of everybody else. Yeah. And and I mean, that's what you see with all these steps.
[00:49:48.80] - Laurie Kagay
Like, this one's actually one of my favorites, but it says percentages of employers who indicate that we much more likely to consider a job candidate with party particular experiences. There's, you know, ten experiences here. And Jeff and I looked at it. We were like, we do that. We do that. We do that. Like, the entire thing.
[00:50:04.40] - Gregg Garner
Okay. Held a job or work study position. Do it. Alright. Let let's let's, like, in consensus to see if we do it. K? Be honest. You guys gotta be honest. Alright? You're Going to me. Completed an internship or apprenticeship. Dude.
[00:50:15.00] - All
Do it.
[00:50:15.90] - Gregg Garner
Held a leadership role.
[00:50:17.19] - All
Do it.
[00:50:17.80] - Gregg Garner
Worked with people from diverse backgrounds and cultures. Do it. Developed a portfolio of work showcasing skills and integrating college experiences. Do it. Served as a peer mentor or adviser.
[00:50:26.40] - All
Do it.
[00:50:26.69] - Gregg Garner
Took multiple courses that required significant writing. Do it. Completed a comprehensive senior project, such as a thesis or capstone project.
[00:50:34.09] - All
Do it.
[00:50:34.30] - Gregg Garner
Engage with community organization or community based project. Do it. Undertook a research project in collaboration with faculty member. Do it. Complete a project experience focused on addressing a global issue. Do it. Do it. Wow. Did did they describe our school?
[00:50:47.59] - Laurie Kagay
That's like yeah.
[00:50:48.40] - Gregg Garner
But that's pretty awesome.
[00:50:49.59] - Laurie Kagay
Well, yeah, when you're already seeing, they're trying to catch up. Yeah. And we're saying we've been doing this for twenty years.
[00:50:54.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:50:54.80] - Laurie Kagay
At this point. Yeah. That's our anniversary.
[00:50:56.69] - Gregg Garner
We're definitely getting yeah. We're in our twentieth year anniversary this year, but we're definitely getting better at it. Yeah. We're getting more fine tuned. And and I think the twenty years of experience has produced the kind of people. Because what I what I enjoy is even the people who, like, graduated from our school, who've gone on in life and such, The these these folks are are having, like, leadership positions Yeah. In the different places that they're at, and that's due to a bible education.
[00:51:22.09] - Jeff Sherrod
That's right. Yeah.
[00:51:22.69] - Gregg Garner
Because the leadership positions they have, some of them, they're not even in the field of Bible. Most of them. Right. It's not even a religion. Yeah. But but they they have learned the kind of skills that come from being a part of a learning community.
[00:51:36.00] - Laurie Kagay
That's right.
[00:51:36.40] - Gregg Garner
Which is what any college should be, an intentional learning community where people are developing their identity in Christ, developing capacity with respect to how they're gonna fulfill occupation and vocation. And I'm pumped to give, students that opportunity at our school. And I know there are a bunch of other schools in the trenches trying to make it happen as well, praying for them Mhmm. Believing that, God is gonna keep motivating and inspiring us Mhmm. To attend to the present and to usher in that kingdom come.
[00:52:04.09] - Jeff Sherrod
Absolutely. Well, thanks guys for this podcast, and thanks you guys for listening in. As always, head over to College Conversations and like and subscribe, and we'll see you guys next time.