College Conversations Season 1, Episode 9: Finding Purpose - Does College Hold the Key? (Transcript)
Dr. Carlos Serrano speaking to The Institute student body during a weekly chapel.
Dr. Carlo Serrano, the incoming president of Manna University, discusses his background and the focus of the university on reaching military personnel. The speakers emphasize the importance of recognizing and utilizing various spiritual gifts within the church body and recommend further exploration of these ideas in the book "The Permanent Revolution." They discuss the need for churches and academic institutions to support diverse roles and gifts within the body of Christ. The role of prophecy and prophets in modern Christianity is also discussed, highlighting the importance of speaking hard truths in love. The speakers emphasize the need for academic institutions to integrate biblical teachings into various fields and professions and express their desire to see biblical higher education transform the world for Jesus.
College Conversations Season 1, Episode 9: Finding Purpose - Does College Hold the Key? (Episode Transcript)
[00:00:04.29] - Jeff Sherrod
Hey everybody and welcome back. Welcome back to College Conversations. I'm Jeff Sherrid. And today we've got, a great conversation ahead of us. Today my co host and I, Greg Garner, we sit down with the one and only doctor Sir Carlos Serrano, who is the president of Manna University in North Carolina. He takes us through his kind of inspiring background from growing up in church and finding a calling in military chaplaincy and eventually even leading a university. We We have a really fun and kinda wide ranging conversation. Covers topics like preaching versus teaching, the often overlooked roles, mentioned in Ephesians four of the apostles, the prophets, and the evangelists, and how it relates to church leadership, the significance of spiritual gifts in today's context, and the practical application of biblical education in Shaping Future Leaders and its integral role in doing so. But before we dive in, just quick reminder, your feedback is very invaluable to us. So if you enjoy these discussions, subscribe, leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. It helps us to continue having these conversations. Alright. Let's jump in. This is College Conversations. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to College Conversations. My name is professor Jeff Sherrod. I'm here, with president Gregg Garner and also professor Benjamin Reese.
[00:01:32.90] - Gregg Garner
Hey!
[00:01:33.00] - Jeff Sherrod
And we have a special guest today, Dr. Carlo Serrano. Dr. Serrano is the incoming president of Manna University in North Carolina, so We're really excited to have him here with us today and be able to share some of his life and his story. And welcome to the show…
[00:01:48.00] - Carlo Serrano
It's been so great being here, hanging out with everyone, From the students at a chapel to, of course, good lunch conversation. And one thing I love about what we do when you Just kinda connect and find people that you know, oh, yeah. We're we're gonna be friends right away.
[00:02:02.79] - Carlo Serrano
And so, I haven't said this to you all yet, But to me, I feel like I belong here.
[00:02:07.70] - Gregg Garner
Like, I'm a host. That's that's that's for sure. Like, Like,
[00:02:09.69] - Carlo Serrano
Like, Like, if I didn't have another job, I'd probably try to slip an application. Like, let me come do life with you. So anyway, thank you for being great hosts.
[00:02:16.40] - Benjamin Reese
Yeah. It was you got to you got to speak this morning in in chapel and even share some of his stories with the with the college students. So that was a wonderful time. So grateful for that.
[00:02:25.30] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah.
[00:02:25.90] - Jeff Sherrod
That message of just trusting in the Lord. If you guys we put that up on Message is up on YouTube. If you guys are listening to this and you wanna check that out, that is something you can, listen to, and we'd able to do that. So yeah. But before we're gonna talk today kinda broadly about Dr. Serrano does a lot of speaking, teaches classes, related to homiletics, which is kind of the science and art of preaching.
[00:02:46.30] - Carlo Serrano
Yes.
[00:02:47.09] - Jeff Sherrod
And so we're gonna talk a little bit about that today. But before we get into that, I thought maybe you could just give us, you know, a little bit of your background and how you came to be the incoming president of Yeah. Manna University. And yeah.
[00:02:56.80] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. I I was born and raised in Tampa, Florida, grew up in a in church, grew up going to church. My faith didn't really become mine personally till I was about a teenager, About fourteen, fifteen years old, and then a couple years after that, visiting a bible college campus. Just really felt God connecting with me, saying you're gonna study the bible, teach people about Jesus for the rest of your life. So as we do, you try to make plans. Well, maybe I'll go to bible college and do this. For the longest, I thought, well, I'm gonna go study theology and minor in pastoral ministry. Like, I I never actually did that, but that's what I thought I was gonna do. And, got married really young, played in a Christian band, and and the more I started playing in that Christian band, The less I got connected to local church life, believe it or not, like, that just kinda became my church, hanging with these guys and Got married young and realized I didn't wanna work behind the counter anymore. And just through a series of events in my wife's family, I realized, you know what? I'm gonna join the army. Find some purpose, get some money for college, just get out of my hometown. So I joined the army in two thousand. My wife was a military brat. She grew up in army bases, and so We ended up moving to California. So I lived my first three years in the army, stationed in Southern California, then came to the East Coast to Fort Campbell, Kentucky, with the hundred first Airborne Division. Fort Campbell, Kentucky is only called that because the post office is on the Kentucky side of the border. Most of the installation is actually in Tennessee. No. No. No. No. No. No.
[00:04:19.69] - Benjamin Reese
No. No. No. No. No.
[00:04:20.50] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. Yeah. So, so been in middle Tennessee since since 2003-4-ish, I spent a year in Iraq. When I got back from Iraq is when, I'd already been wrestling with that call of God on my life from when I was a teenager and had a couple of moments in the army where I felt like, well, maybe I can just be a soldier forever and be a chaplain and, but …
[00:04:41.00] - Gregg Garner
I got It was that phrase. Right? Teach the Bible Yeah. And tell people that.
[00:04:45.30] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. Study the Bible and teach people about Jesus Yeah. Forever. So that kinda call always resonated in me. In the army, I thought, well, here's a happy compromise. I love being in the army. Well, I can just be a chaplain. And then I got hurt in Iraq, and I really felt like, okay. This door is closing. What's next. And, I started doing bible college classes my last year or so in the army, connected with a local church in Clarksville. And, that church graciously gave me a job In ministry. You're like, you're almost finished with your bible college. You're about to be, you know, get your your your ministers And
[00:05:15.10] - Jeff Sherrod
And that was a surprise for you.
[00:05:16.19] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. I was like, woah. I mean, I well, we kinda knew we were gonna stay in Clarksville and and try to find some kind of ministry job. I didn't really know what was next. And that lead pastor there Essentially said, hey. We're gonna hire you two months before you get out of the army so you can get two paychecks to get your life settled. And, so I was associate pastor for five years and transitioned to become a lead pastor for Six years, and then I merged that church with another church. So then I was a teaching pastor for almost another six years. And buried in between all of that was this Slow drift, a god drift towards biblical higher education where the more education I got, the more my teaching gift started to shine, not just On a Sunday context, but actually in in other contexts. And once I started teaching at what became Manna University, that's when I really felt like, okay, the Lord's really Shifting me, and local church pastoral work, is not the end game call for my life. I'm a teacher. I had a great mentor even correct me once. I said, I'm just a pastor teacher. And he's like, no, bro. You are not a pastor. Like, you can do the job Because of the fruit of the spirit. You can do the job because you have you've read books on it Right. But you're not pastoral. You're a teacher, you know?
And so that that was Freeing for me. Like, oh, I can actually lean into that to that gift. So, taught with ManiU since twenty thirteen. And, in twenty twenty, the leadership of our university network and our church network felt that I was gonna be the next president, so they kinda shoulder tapped me. That's Language we use in our culture for developing leaders. We don't do all calls for volunteers. We say, hey. You'd be great at it.
[00:06:51.60] - Jeff Sherrod
So you know, I discern something there…
[00:06:52.39] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. They shoulder tapped me. Hey. You're gonna we we think you should be the next president of the university. My wife and I absolutely felt like it was the Lord. Fun thing, when I told my wife what they asked me, her first words were, I told you we were gonna live in Fayetteville one day. That's awesome. That's conversation over, I guess. So Yeah.
[00:07:10.60] - Carlo Serrano
So, yeah, in June, we'll be moving from Clarksville, Fort Campbell area to Fayetteville, Fort Bragg area. Very similar Network, same tribe of people. We're very passionate about, reaching people who are on the military highway, people who are connected to, serving our country, whatever that looks like. We're very passionate about doing ministry to them. So there's a, you know, a a missiological piece to that That particular subculture of Americans.
[00:07:34.80] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:07:36.19] - Carlo Serrano
I call them the warrior class of America people. Like, they need Jesus like we all do. They have lives, and they love Jesus, and so… just excited to be a part of a group. That that's not all we do, but Yeah. A lot of what we do is connected to that. So That's why I ended up at at Manna U.
[00:07:51.60] - Jeff Sherrod
That's awesome. Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Even, you know, makes me think of
[00:07:56.10] - Benjamin Reese
the work some of the work that Paul did, probably, with,
[00:07:57.89] - Jeff Sherrod
you know, reaching out to Military folk and Yeah. Yeah, carrying that on.
[00:08:01.00] - Carlo Serrano
The Roman roads that were built to transport their army are what allowed the gospel to expand In Paul's ministry, whereas was it not for the Roman soldier, Paul wouldn't have gotten where he got. It's just fascinating to dig into that That connection.
[00:08:17.00] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. And we know that he had a a network. I mean, the book of Philemon
[00:08:20.69] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:08:21.10] - Gregg Garner
Is to a high ranking military official and
[00:08:24.10] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah.
[00:08:24.69] - Gregg Garner
Concerning even, his network with Archipus and…
[00:08:28.10] - Benjamin Reese
the other characters.
[00:08:28.50] - Gregg Garner
Fellow soldiers.
[00:08:30.30] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. They're they're because I think Sometimes we read those texts and we read, like, fellow soldier…
[00:08:34.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Mhmm.
[00:08:35.00] - Gregg Garner
And we get that there's some metaphor and analogy Right. Especially when it comes to those conversations with Timothy. But when he's talking to Philemon, there's some legit Right. Like, actual position representing, his guard and his his people that had him interacting with folks in that, that space. You you had used the term military military highway?
[00:08:58.10] - Carlo Serrano
Yes.
[00:08:58.50] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. And that's something you guys coined. Right? That's, like, that's, like, something you guys use.
[00:09:02.00] - Carlo Serrano
Shout out to to Pastor Michael and Chris Fletcher and and at Manna Church. Manna Church has a a network called Multiply. It's really a movement Of having an expression of Manna Church wherever uncle Sam sends soldiers. So they identified through some some systems About two hundred and seventy three locations or geographic areas, and so that's kind of a number we use, two seventy three. Like, that's the goal. It's our moonshot. Like, we we may never see it happen.
[00:09:32.60] - Benjamin Reese
There is the amount of installations or presences…
[00:09:36.20] - Gregg Garner
or potential.
[00:09:36.79] - Benjamin Reese
Yes, Potential?
[00:09:37.39] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. So for some of it is even for, like, security reasons. We can't say what those two hundred and seventy three literally are. But there's two hundred and seventy three spaces Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That we've that they've identified, where we wanna have a a manna manna extent a vision and example and expression of Manna Church. And it's it's our moonshot. Right? We we may never see that in our lifetime, but it's kind of the goal. Like Yeah. We wanna we think we can see that Hoping. Let's let's go after it. So it's a big, hairy, audacious goal, and, we're seeing God do really cool things with people. So the the multiple expressions of that church, like microsite, which is like what we'd consider a house church, a gathering of, like, less than a hundred people, And those are led by just folks who wanna do it. They use a video teaching format. So Manna Church in Fayetteville, North Carolina will resource those microsites. So here's an fully polished, packaged online experience with your worship and the message, small group notes. Here's everything you need to conduct outreach in your neighborhood. Here's strategy…. Here's plans…
[00:10:41.29] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:10:41.70] - Carlo Serrano
To really help you reach reach people. And then there's city sites, which are just like a stand alone church of any size, and then there's multi sites, so one church with multiple campuses. So Manna Church has, twenty something expressions of that right now, since twenty fifteen that have kinda blown up everywhere.
[00:10:57.29] - Gregg Garner
That's amazing. Yeah.
[00:10:58.20] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. A movement is really awesome to be part of. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:59.70] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome.
[00:11:00.29] - Carlo Serrano
And the university serves To educate, equip, and empower leaders to advance the kingdom. And so we wanna help Manna Church accomplish that mission. We wanna help the Impact Churches Network, Which is our our kinda network of churches accomplish that. And really anyone who who just wants to pursue their calling on their life. Yeah.
[00:11:17.79] - Benjamin Reese
So I'm interested, like, you've done both, worked in the university and done church, and you did preaching and then did teaching. Yeah. So how would you define the distinction between preaching and teaching, and why did you kinda find yourself liking one over the other, Finding yourself more fitted for one over the other?
[00:11:35.89] - Carlo Serrano
That is a great question. I don't I don't pretend to have the answer. I know
[00:11:40.29] - Benjamin Reese
Everybody does a little bit differently.
[00:11:41.70] - Carlo Serrano
I know linguistically, we could split hairs over what the words mean. Yeah. We could, you know, define them. I personally view preaching As not as much a concern with understanding. A preacher is definitely concerned with the life change. So a preacher wants something to happen with their words, but preaching, that exhorting, it's I don't think understanding is inherent in preaching, and I think understanding is essential to teaching. Teaching is all about I want to make something complex, so simple to you that you get it. Like, the greatest compliment for me After a message is never good job. Oh, that was a powerful word. It's I really understood with that. I've never seen that in the Bible before. Yeah. I've heard that story my whole life, and now it makes sense. Like, for me, that's how I know, yeah, I'm really flowing in In that particular gift because it's bringing understanding, to the list. So, like, in the Ephesians four list of gifts that God gives the church. Right? I love teaching as that important bookend to this great pioneering work of the apostle. The teacher kinda helps people understand the, so what? Like, yeah. All this stuff. Yeah. All this good information. What am I supposed to do with it? And I think that's really the biblical role of the teacher to do that. So Mhmm. That's kinda how I …
[00:13:13.20] - Gregg Garner
So, in contrast then, if you were to Take a similar way of making sense of how it is you would be effectively complimented as a preacher. What would you hear?
[00:13:24.79] - Carlo Serrano
I would hear, man, that stepped on my toes. Man, that confronted me. Woah. That was powerful. You know, I would hear those kind of emotive emotive words that moved me. Yeah. That shook me up. That, you know, that's usually what I would hear as a preacher or I agree with you. Good word. Yeah. Amen. Like, I agree with that. I think the preacher really stirs up that that heart space, and fires people up. All needed. All important. Yeah. You know, the The those charismatic gifts using our voice, like, that matters. But I just I think that, this could go off in a whole different tangent, but I think that the overemphasis on the pastor as everything in local church ministry has caused us to Neglect some of those other gifts that Paul mentions that Jesus gave the church so that we could all grow into maturity. Mhmm. So without that pioneering apostolic voice, without that, I'm gonna challenge you with what God has said, prophetic voice. Without pushing people towards what are you gonna do with the gospel, I think we limit ourselves. And so when we have a pastor centric shepherding model or when we just lump pastor teacher in, I know that some of the The experts will will fight over…
[00:14:42.29] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. They'll use that Greek conjunction, I, and they'll say that the end of the list makes it Right. Pastor Teacher.
[00:14:47.79] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. Is it pastor teacher or what is it? I tend to think that, no, it's actually a separate stand alone gift As supported by the other spiritual gifts list, where you see teaching in there.
[00:14:58.89] - Benjamin Reese
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:15:00.10] - Jeff Sherrod
Well, I think that's why I like the advice that even your mentor gave to you when you're like, Pastor teacher, and he's like, well, how about just you know, even for people listening, I think that that can be helpful because, like, you know, sometimes it's People are getting tapped on the shoulder to say, hey. I'm seeing this calling in you. Yeah. I'm seeing this gifting in you, and you don't have to feel, if you're a young person hearing that, I gotta suddenly be everything. Mhmm. You know, you can find a group of people that are serving Jesus and recognize that God's gonna use your gift in a way to compliment the whole body…
[00:15:29.29] - Carlo Serrano
I’m trying to undermine local church leadership either.
[00:15:32.10] - Carlo Serrano
do think leadership's important, and I do think you should have, visionary voice and all of that. But I just get a little concerned with the notion of thinking that in your senior pastor over your lead pastor of your organization, They have to be the chief apostle and prophet and teacher and evangel and and I just think, oh, that's that's that's not I don't think that's the most balanced healthy view of that text. I think it can it can undercut people who God wants to use in those gifts. Yeah. And then, of course.
[00:16:02.39] - Gregg Garner
And it's not even a good reading of the text. Right. The text literally using the the Greek tos, meaning, like, we we loosely translate it as he gave some Some used to be apostles. Some to be prophets.
[00:16:12.00] - Carlo Serrano
Exactly. Yeah.
[00:16:13.10] - Gregg Garner
Like, it's it's clearly delineating that no one person holds All of these giftings, and instead, it's a collaborative effort by these parts under the lordship, the headship Right. Of Jesus to implement the equipping apparatus
[00:16:27.70] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah.
[00:16:27.79] - Gregg Garner
For the maturation of the body.
[00:16:28.89] - Jeff Sherrod
Because even the metaphor of the body just doesn't make sense even if we're saying this is and this is one person. Yeah.
[00:16:34.50] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. But even growing up in in church life, I I know that if if if you talk to twelve year old Greg and you're like, hey. Who's the head of your church? I'd be like, well, it's pastor so and so.
[00:16:45.10] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:16:45.70] - Gregg Garner
Like, and and it's interesting how even as a college professor, I could teach a class. Like, I do I, actually, I think you're teaching it right now. Right? The body of Christ. I just understand. But I do I authored a course at our school based upon Ephesians four one through sixteen.
[00:17:02.20] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah.
[00:17:02.89] - Gregg Garner
And, I did a lot of work with it. And, I was always surprised teaching in classes Where I would say how many how many parts in this body and how many gifts and people will be able to identify those five what folks Sometimes called offices. Yeah. Yeah. And then they're like, and there's also the saints, so there's six. And it's like, man, y'all missing the most important part of the head. Like, who is Christ? And it's very clear We're here to communicate that. And and I think that it once we once we recognize the authority in the lordship of Jesus, it it allows us to ease into the reality. None of us are gonna do it all.
[00:17:38.09] - Carlo Serrano
Yep.
[00:17:38.70] - Gregg Garner
Let's just let's just play our part. Yeah. And and and let's be a part of that body. Yeah.
[00:17:43.70] - Benjamin Reese
And and instead of, you know, being the head of a body.
[00:17:46.79] - Gregg Garner
I think a lot of leaders, over the years have felt, a a false pressure to have to be a lot of that. Yeah. And and because I knew guys they had they had that shepherd's heart, and and they were gonna be the first at the hospital. Yep. They they're gonna have the best words at the funeral. But when it came to, an expository teaching on the text, they are sweating. Yep. They they they spent forty hours last week studying for a mediocre Teaching started.
[00:18:15.00] - Gregg Garner
And it's like, man, your your little associate pastor over there can, like, Wipe that up, you know, and and make that happen. But because the pressure's on you to be all of that, you feel like you can't let them do that. Yeah. And then it even creates, like, Yeah. Sometimes insecurity or might lose my job. It it it's really interesting how a good teaching on Ephesians four could probably clean up a lot of the mess that we've been experiencing as a church.
[00:18:41.29] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. I'll shout out a book written, probably back around two thousand twelve ish called The Permanent Revolution By Alan Hirsch and Tim Ketchum. And, it's they wrote it for the academy like their heart was. If we wanna if we wanna see change, we need to get this into seminaries.
[00:18:57.59] - Carlo Serrano
a lot of Hirsch's work is dense anyway, but, it's fascinating if you want a real good in-depth balanced book. To me, That really highlights the neglect of what they call AIP. So they say we've neglected apostle, prophet, evangelist At the expense of shepherd teacher in most of the western model. And so Right. It's a really good book on here's how to bring balance Back to it and here you know, and the heart of the book is reading that text in its context. The road to maturity in Christ is all of these things functioning.
[00:19:30.40] - Jeff Sherrod
That's right.
[00:19:30.79] - Carlo Serrano
So, it even gives you some examples, like, practically, here's what it could look like to be too much of one at the neglect of other and what that could so it's really Interesting. Just a shout out To an old book. It's a thick book. It's dense. It's not easy to read, but it's helpful in the conversation.
[00:19:46.40] - Benjamin Reese
That's cool.
[00:19:46.70] - Carlo Serrano
And you said a key thing About the false pressure. Yeah. Because that's what I was thinking. Like, it's so freeing to just be who you are.
[00:19:54.59] - Benjamin Reese
Yeah. Right.
[00:19:54.79] - Carlo Serrano
You know this is the gift of God on my life. This is what I'm called to do. I know who I am. I know who I'm not. And I found even in church ministry when I merged a church from a lead pastor to I became the teaching pastor. Just how freeing I felt. Sure. Not because I didn't have responsibility, but just knowing I'm not going to be Expected to be something that I'm not anymore. Mhmm. And that felt really good.
[00:20:19.40] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. Because the the systems we create to house the Institutional expressions of our faith necessitate the kind of knowledge that delineates responsibility according to a text like that. Otherwise, So there there won't even be support in the system to make way for a teaching pastor. So Yeah. For for example, if if your institution doesn't acknowledge the diversity of Yes. Mhmm. Your budget is gonna reflect, operating expenses that could go towards the labor of a pastor, But nothing on the teaching side.
[00:20:52.40] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah.
[00:20:52.79] - Gregg Garner
Nothing on the evangelist side. And and so then these are the volunteer guys, and inherently, you're gonna feel less.
[00:20:58.70] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:20:58.90] - Gregg Garner
And you're gonna feel like you can't you can't turn this into, a lifetime calling, like, in, like, the Levitical sense where you're supported by the community To effectuate that service, you just find yourself, like, well, I guess unless I start doing more of that guy's job Right. I don't really have a place. And and that that has to change. And I'm I'm glad these guys would write a book for academia because, you know, academia is is where we're supposedly Training all these guys. Exactly. Exactly. And and trying to say, hey. Let's let's let's keep improving. Let's keep doing better. Yeah. Because It it it really is interesting. You're right. The key to the text, the transition verse thirteen, I often point out the very curious, conjunction. It's it's the Greek word méchri, which which means until.
[00:21:46.59] - Gregg Garner
It says that this equipping by these Offices has to happen until we see a unity of faith and a knowledge of the son of God Mhmm. Unto the development of a mature Body. Yeah. And so it's like you I know that there are people one of the ways they did away with apostle, prophet, and evangelist was To say that there those gifts cease Yep. After the the Yeah. You know, the the dawn of the Charismata for the Inauguration of the church movement, and then it just moved into Pastors and Teachers, but the text is very clear. It doesn't say, you you know, after the first century, we've done with this.
[00:22:26.59] - Carlo Serrano
Right.
[00:22:26.90] - Gregg Garner
Literally, it's communicating. The body needs to find unity in the knowledge, the faith of the son of God. And until that happens, these guys need to be doing their job. And so if more churches had offices like that and and more Academic institutions prepared people for those offices. Yeah. We might have a healthier, more developed body as well.
[00:22:45.79] - Jeff Sherrod
Because last I checked, we have not reached that fullness.
[00:22:48.50] - Gregg Garner
No. No.
[00:22:49.29] - Carlo Serrano
No. Not yet. Yeah.
[00:22:50.70] - Gregg Garner
No. No.
[00:22:51.40] - Carlo Serrano
And also that word even offices, I think can be loaded in how that text gets interpreted. Like, Sure. Are they gifts? Are they offices?
[00:22:59.40] - Gregg Garner
Sure. Sure.
[00:23:00.09] - Carlo Serrano
So so I tend to lean with, well, if I view them as an office, I'm that's where I think we can get into the slippery slope of What exists now? And, like, the tribe of Christians I grew up in would say there's no such thing as an apostle because that office doesn't exist anymore. Yet that organization was one of the one of and is one of the leading church planting missional organizations on earth. They do foreign missions better than most people. Like, you're in the business of apostolic work. Yeah. Like, this is what you do. Yeah.
[00:23:30.00] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:23:30.20] - Carlo Serrano
You just call them missionaries. But, no, these are apostles you're sending to go where the gospel's never been preached, to build where something's never been built. Yeah. But it's that nuance. They they interpret it through the lens of Yeah.
[00:23:40.20] - Gregg Garner
I agree with you because it's Not in the text to say office, but that is definitely the vernacular that has been common in the church. The text is definitely gifts. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:47.90] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:48.09] - Benjamin Reese
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:48.29] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Verse seven, verse eleven both highlight that These are are are gifts, and it's it's not just that they are gifts in that I have the gift of teaching, although Romans twelve, first Corinthians twelve will promote those things. But in this text, it's that he actually gave these people as gifts.
[00:24:04.90] - Carlo Serrano
As gifts.
[00:24:05.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Yes. The gift is not even an abstract Function. Yeah. It's not like I gave these general gifts. They just encourage these individuals, these people.
[00:24:12.40] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:13.00] - Gregg Garner
Which then resonates with things like what Jesus said. Something That that you you could make more sense of when you recognize that Paul's teaching is Piggybacking always off of Jesus' revelation. So you could say things like, if if you don't receive the prophet, then you don't receive the gift of the prophet. Yep. And so some people, if they don't understand the Pauline concept on it, they'll go, well, I wanna receive the gift of the prophet. They must have some gift. I'm gonna have their gift if I receive them instead of recognizing the gift is that person.
[00:24:43.09] - Carlo Serrano
Yes.
[00:24:43.29] - Gregg Garner
Right. You have to receive them that people have To experience the hospitality of the community of Christ even function in their gifts. I I like, I I can just imagine Any given Sunday, how many gifts are sitting in the congregation Yeah. And there's just no reception of them.
[00:25:00.29] - Benjamin Reese
Yeah. I mean, I remember being a kid and wanting to serve Jesus, but knowing I didn't wanna be a pastor.
[00:25:04.90] - Carlo Serrano
I knew that deep in my bones. But on the other side of that, what I am I couldn't imagine what else I would do. So it's just like a blank. So I was just kinda walking Into the darkness being like, well, hopefully there's something out there for me to do.
[00:25:20.70] - Jeff Sherrod
Maybe a Sunday school class.
[00:25:21.90] - Benjamin Reese
Maybe a Sunday school class. Maybe I would, you know, be a missionary. I didn't know, but I think a lot of people, like young people, are sitting in churches wondering where their place is. And if they only see one place, then they don't fit it. Yeah. I think that's pretty tragic that they They'll just go somewhere else where they can find a place where their gifts are recognized or function.
[00:25:41.90] - Gregg Garner
And it's it's one of those things that are are like, because the the linguistics of it all is really important because you do have to define
[00:25:52.20] - Carlo Serrano
Sure.
[00:25:52.59] - Gregg Garner
At some point. Otherwise, You you you utilize a word that very well means something else to someone else. And so you do like, you were noting the organization you grew up with. They are forefront in missions Yep. But they don't believe apostles exist anymore. So so, like, I can get that historically and scholarly. If you think about aspects of apostolic succession and Yes. And if we're gonna go, you know, this is this is Succeeding Peter, and then now it creates a hierarchy of people who are just chasing, as Paul would put it, endless genealogies. Yeah.
[00:26:29.20] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah.
[00:26:29.40] - Gregg Garner
I get how that can be really harmful because, you know, for us twenty first century post reformation believers, we do believe in the priesthood of believers and Yeah. Those kinds of things. But when we utilize the word and and it's like just you you take the verb, it just means to send.
[00:26:47.20] - Carlo Serrano
To send.
[00:26:47.59] - Gregg Garner
Apostolos, one who is sent. Mhmm. And you look at missionaries, like, we we do have to update definitions in such a way so we can have effective conversations.
[00:26:57.79] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah.
[00:26:58.40] - Gregg Garner
Because I think that the community you grew up with, if you said, well, we're using it in this way. We're describing who it is these people are. They're folks Who are being sent by even your your church to, proclaim the gospel. But then, to me, it's, like, interesting because I think a lot of people would be like, yes. I can agree with that. But in the end, it's like, what do they do? And it almost seems like they all end up doing the same thing.
[00:27:22.00] - Carlo Serrano
Right.
[00:27:22.40] - Gregg Garner
Everybody is is preaching the gospel. Apostles preaching the gospel, evangelists are preaching the gospel, prophets are preaching the gospel, pastors are preaching the gospel. And it's like, wow. There's some there's some actually nuances that we can work out in an examination of the text. Have you discovered this?
[00:27:35.79] - Carlo Serrano
Very much so. And and this is the beauty and importance of biblical education, biblical higher education To help students tap into that. So first and foremost, we're we're not encouraging you to come learn to get a degree. We're not. Right. You don't come to Bible College to become a something. Nope. You come to Bible College to become someone.
[00:27:58.20] - Gregg Garner
Someone. Right.
[00:27:59.59] - Carlo Serrano
Who am I I becoming? Learn to learn. I'm coming to learn for the sake of learning. So I see that apostolic gifting, for example, I I tap I try to connect students to the entrepreneurship behind that. For sure. How can I flow with an apostolic gifting? And I'm never gonna go to a foreign country and preach the gospel, but I'm gonna start five businesses. I'm gonna go earn my MBA, and I'm gonna function as a modern day apostle, Ascend into that marketplace with this particular skill set, functioning in the prophetic. Right?
[00:28:34.20] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. And and it's not like you're being creative here. This comes from the Bible. Right? Yes. We have models. Paul the Apostle is in the marketplace…
[00:28:43.29] - Carlo Serrano
Exactly.
[00:28:43.79] - Gregg Garner
And and and he is effectuating business transactions on the day to day developing networks with Lydia, the seller, purr purple Yep. Priscilla and Mikaela. Even even Peter's network extends him over to Joppa with Simon the Tanner. Like, these guys are in the marketplace, and and They're highlighted in an apostolic function. So the entrepreneurial thing is real. It's so interesting that you said that because I was about to Jump in with that. And then you said it. I was like, this is my guy. Yeah. This is my guy right here. So I'm curious. Talk talk to us about prophetic too.
[00:29:15.50] - Benjamin Reese
How do you see it?
[00:29:15.90] - Carlo Serrano
So the same thing. We have to understand those words. What what kind of prophecy are we talking about? We've allowed prophecy to be hijacked as only future telling.
[00:29:27.59] - Gregg Garner
Right.
[00:29:28.09] - Carlo Serrano
As as and and again, I couldn't get to, like, a dark place for sure and be misused even by the enemy What prophecy really is Yeah. When really what the prophet is doing is telling what God has said. It really is kind of a thus saith the Lord. So I tell people even when someone's giving, like, a prophetic word for you, it actually shouldn't surprise you because the word of the prophet's going to connect with what did God already say.
[00:29:53.90] - Gregg Garner
Right.
[00:29:54.29] - Carlo Serrano
So I know someone's really flowing with a prophetic gift that they're gonna say a hard truth. I See this in your life. I see God doing this. And usually, it's gonna stir that thing in you of, yeah. I know. Yeah. Yeah. I've been so my favorite Men and and and women who function in that gifting, they usually will always end that time with saying, does that make sense? Does that make sense? Are you resonating with because they know if this is completely out of left field, like, okay. I may have missed it. So really, Practically, we want students to understand how that word of God functions in their day to day life. It's the ability to speak that hard truth in love To people. It's that ability to call out that greatness in your friends, that boldness. As a school teacher, as a law enforcement official, To just be able to pray over someone and say, hey. You know what? I really and I see this thing in your life. I see you know, to just be able to connect people to What God would say to them. Yeah.
[00:30:52.00] - Benjamin Reese
It's going to always connect to the word.
[00:30:53.00] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. I absolutely, you know, that's that's gotta be the metric the metric, but Right.
[00:30:58.00] - Gregg Garner
I think when That's how you anchor whether or not it's legitimate.
[00:31:00.50] - Carlo Serrano
That's it. That's it. But it should really be more about so popularity and prophecy contradict to me Because when I look at the biblical text, it's probably the most unpopular person in the room is the person functioning prophetically Okay. Especially in Hebrew text. In the Hebrew text, that's the guy they always wanted to kill because he's gonna come tell us, you know, all that's gonna go bad. Yeah. The prophet in the Old Testament is Captain Obvious. He's the I told you so. Like, I told you this was gonna happen. God's been telling like, so I get nervous in modern context when when we flex that word and it's Connected to celebrity or no. That's that's a hard gift to have. So for me and my preaching style, I've had people say that, you know, You're not pastor teacher. You're probably more a prophet teacher. And I can receive that because I know, oh, I'm not up there fortune telling. I'm just have the ability. I call it Carlo privilege. I can say something blunt, hard, And people accept it. Mhmm. People take it. Like, yep. That's the truth. Mhmm. And it's a kindness with candor. It's a candor with kindness. It's I think that's very much a prophetic gift to be able to, you know, say that hard thing, and in their at a soul level, the person knows. Yeah. Yeah. You're right.
[00:32:18.00] - Gregg Garner
That's good. Yeah. Yeah. This is this is a subject matter that's very near and dear to me on on so many levels because I think, when I look at organization and particularly biblical organization, you cannot you you you can't avoid having to contend with the divide these diversity of gifts Yep. Because they don't just show up in Ephesians four. They they That's right. They're they're throughout the entire text. Yep. And, so I I got a I got a question for you. One of the things that I've I've observed is that there is a a distinction between People who function with a gift versus people who are a gift.
[00:33:05.40] - Benjamin Reese
Oh, yeah.
[00:33:06.09] - Gregg Garner
So that means a person can function In speaking the prophetic and not be, in this case, Ephesians 04:11 type prophet, A a person can function the apostolic and even like, all all those because we're highlighting Romans twelve or first Corinthians twelve and those kinds of functional Yes. Or first Corinthians twelve will put it as a manifestation.
[00:33:28.29] - Carlo Serrano
Yep.
[00:33:28.90] - Gregg Garner
And and so when when you were talking about first of all, I completely agree that The the prophecy isn't merely fortune telling, and that it it really is that kind of, even as you put it, truth that could come in a very blunt fashion, but it does pierce the heart, and it makes sense of what doesn't. Yes. It takes babble And and and makes it clear. Yeah. Paul apostle. Right? First Corinthians fourteen. Yeah. You you've got those tongues. Well, let's let's just speak Five words of prophecy. Let's make sense to people. Let's pierce their hearts. So I I I'm completely on board with all that. But when it comes to the prophet, what What I've seen here in in in my study is that this is, this is definitely a visionary gift.
[00:34:15.19] - Carlo Serrano
Mhmm.
[00:34:15.59] - Gregg Garner
They they are painting a picture of a future that could be if you do what the lord says according to his Word.
[00:34:22.00] - Carlo Serrano
Yep.
[00:34:22.50] - Gregg Garner
Or they're saying, this is what it's gonna be like if we don't do that. And then it's saying, here's how we can avoid this to be more part of what it is that God wants to do. And so they organize and govern according to the word of the Lord. Yeah. What what do you what do you think about that?
[00:34:39.90] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. I agree. I struggle sometimes to find the example in modern Western Christianity of That's a prophet among us Yeah. Versus someone functioning in the prophetic. Yeah.
[00:34:55.09] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:34:55.69] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. Some of this, my mind's just going blank, but I really struggle sometimes to pinpoint, I think that guy's this. But when it comes to what I call the unredeemed profits, I actually don't struggle with it. So an example, Dave Chappelle…
[00:35:09.80] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:35:10.40] - Carlo Serrano
Is an unredeemed prophet.
[00:35:12.59] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. Yeah. He is. He is.
[00:35:14.50] - Carlo Serrano
He absolutely Is saying the thing that everyone says, yep. That's a hard truth. And, you know, it makes sense, But he's using this medium of comedy…
[00:35:26.50] - Gregg Garner
Yes. And he's a preacher
[00:35:27.40] - Jeff Sherrod
He's preaching.
[00:35:28.69] - Gregg Garner
that homiletic in here.
[00:35:29.69] - Carlo Serrano
He's preaching, and he's shaking paradigms, And he's equally offending, which to me is always an indicator of you're on the road to Christ. You know? There's there's that beautiful passage where it says the Sadducees And the Pharisees got together to see what they were gonna do about Jesus. Yeah. And I'm like, these guys who hated each other United because that's how divisive Jesus was. Yeah. And so when someone communicates like that, and and I think I think on an unredeemed level, because obviously, he's not doing it in the name of Jesus. He's, you know, but I think I think that Chappelle like quality of
[00:36:03.90] - Gregg Garner
Do you know his family? He he has ministers
[00:36:06.19] - Carlo Serrano
Very much so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:36:07.50] - Gregg Garner
And you could hear that resonate. You can hear seeds are planted. You know, I pray for the guy because…
[00:36:11.69] - Benjamin Reese
Yeah.
[00:36:12.00] - Gregg Garner
There's a gift there.
[00:36:13.30] - Carlo Serrano
For sure.
[00:36:14.19] - Gregg Garner
He's he's speaking It is is like, it it it's definitely It's literally to teach a class.
[00:36:20.69] - Carlo Serrano
He's challenging. Like, he's literally shaking. Yeah. He has shaken the foundations of what's true, what's not true, what do we believe Yeah. Especially in that context, working primarily In in this in in in that kind of triangle of of wickedness in America, right, between big media and big Hollywood and big tech, like, being in the middle of that To stand up to them and say, I don't care what you say. Yeah. Like This is not good.
[00:36:46.09] - Benjamin Reese
Yes. That's the most prophetic mic drop thing in the world…
[00:36:50.00] - Gregg Garner
Exactly. And, you know, in the Bible, I think it's important when we look at the navi’' or the navi’im, (the prophets). Mhmm. It's Sometimes we think because we were introduced to the Bible at a young age that we invented all the terminology concerning these types of Yeah. Right. People. But all of the Ancient Near Eastern cultures had their own navi.
[00:37:10.09] - Carlo Serrano
Mhmm.
[00:37:10.90] - Gregg Garner
I mean, we encounter Balaam as a navi.
[00:37:13.19] - Carlo Serrano
That's right.
[00:37:13.69] - Gregg Garner
He he he's not part of Moses' community. He doesn't have the revelation of Yahweh.
[00:37:18.90] - Carlo Serrano
Yep.
[00:37:19.30] - Gregg Garner
But, there he is operating in that capacity. And it very you know, he he's basically a consultant Yeah. That that the king of Balak wants to hire Balaam. To help him convince The Moab and Midian that they can overcome this community that's growing at a rapid rate, licking up all the resources. And so get in there, general Schwarzkopf, and and and point your your lights and put on the show and tell us we're gonna over operation overcome Israel. We're gonna do this, and that that was his capacity. That was his job. He had gifts Yeah. To make it happen. Now the story is awesome, and, You know, we don't have time to get into that. But but, you know, these these gifts, they they they do exist. I mean, God made everybody. Yep. And and it's it's just I think it's that much more exciting in the space that we get to operate in terms of teaching people about identity. Yeah. Not about I I love the way you put I mean, literally, you you speak our language. This is it's impressive how similar, we sound, if not the same, but, you know, you're coming to Bible school to learn how to learn. Yep. You you are coming to bible school To be a disciple. And and you're gonna become someone in Christ. And it's not about Asking the question, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? Just comes later. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, who are you in Christ? And what a What a privilege to be able to teach young people, “Hey. This is who you are.”
[00:38:52.30] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:38:52.90] - Gregg Garner
In Christ.
[00:38:53.30] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. This is…
[00:38:53.69] - Jeff Sherrod
This is how you operate.
[00:38:53.80] - Gregg Garner
And I just you know, what if Dave Chappelle? I mean, even now, he gets the conversation with someone and says, do you know who you are? Do you know who you are? You know who God made you?
[00:39:03.40] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah.
[00:39:04.09] - Gregg Garner
And you don't you like, man, Like, you are you are who you are, and God, like, he can help you become more.
[00:39:12.90] - Carlo Serrano
That's it.
[00:39:13.50] - Gregg Garner
And and and you don't even A bend to what everyone else wants from you because it's about what God wants from you, and that's your conversation with God.
[00:39:21.90] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:39:22.59] - Gregg Garner
I mean, it it, Like, I just don't know if there's enough room in our religion right now to let God be God in those ways. You know?
[00:39:31.50] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. There's there's there's not. Not in our religion. Right? Yeah. I shared this with the students this morning in their prayer, like, you know, Go to God with your mess. Like, it's okay. Like, give it to him. Like, sometimes you gotta lock the door and you may have to cuss a little. Like, if your God is offended at that word, he's Small guy.
[00:39:49.30] - Gregg Garner
He's very small.
[00:39:50.09] - Carlo Serrano
Trust me. He can take it. Like, be but be real. Yeah. And I do think that our our religion For sure can get in the way of of people really tapping into what it's that's like to walk with God, really. You know.
[00:40:03.90] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. Because even our Bible institutions like, we're a Bible school. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that we're just teaching preachers to fill the pulpit.
[00:40:11.69] - Carlo Serrano
That's right.
[00:40:12.30] - Gregg Garner
You know? Yeah. We're teaching the Bible so you could become in Christ what God formed you to become. I don't know what that is. None of us here know what that is. Yep. But God does, and we know God, and so we're just gonna help you hear him better.
[00:40:26.69] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah.
[00:40:27.00] - Gregg Garner
See him more.
[00:40:28.00] - Benjamin Reese
Yeah.
[00:40:28.30] - Gregg Garner
And and it's it to me, that's where my passion ignites because I get so excited about God's kids growing up and becoming what he wanted them to become and not getting hijacked by the anxiety of What shall we eat or what shall we wear? Because that's what's messing with ministers. Right?
[00:40:46.09] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah.
[00:40:46.59] - Gregg Garner
Like, that's as you know, we're all in the college space. These days, there was a study recently, ten years ago. The most common question from parents At a Christian college and sending their student was, so how how is the spiritual climate? It was like a question of the spiritual climate. Number one question now is, what kind of job are they gonna be able to get and how much will they get paid?
[00:41:12.80] - Jeff Sherrod
Yep. Yeah. We looked at I think this is Barna. But they looked at, you know, Christian parents going to sending their kids to Christian schools, and then just secular parents sending their kids to state schools, And the questions and concerns are identical Identical. Across the board. It's just Mhmm. What they all want from college, whether it's a Christian school or a secular school, is about the same.
[00:41:33.09] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah.
[00:41:34.09] - Jeff Sherrod
And that's that's our goal.
[00:41:35.19] - Gregg Garner
And what we wanna deliver is is more precious than silver and gold.
[00:41:39.59] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah.
[00:41:40.00] - Gregg Garner
It's, like, worth more than all of that. And we're we're also hearing from a Lord that tells us when we pursue that kingdom with the priority and his righteousness, All that other stuff comes. We don't have to worry about it. But as leaders in our respective institutions, we have to create the venue for that to be lived out. Yeah. The institutions that that actually make room for the diversity of gifts that do exist in people.
[00:42:07.19] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. Because that's the challenge. Right? It's like people come. Let's say they do go to a school. They learn about a gifting that they can have. If it's an if it's a new wine, old wineskin situation that they're going back to, that's not gonna work. Yeah. So it it both of these things that the systems have to change concurrently to accommodate a biblical understanding.
[00:42:26.00] - Gregg Garner
So, like, one of our our master's programs, we had we retitled it. It was a master's of missiology. We changed it now to missiological entrepreneurialism.
[00:42:35.19] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. There you go. Right?
[00:42:37.19] - Gregg Garner
Right. And so so, like, it's Because to me, it's like, okay, we're gonna train people in the Bible, and then we're gonna go send them somewhere else to learn international business. And it's like, wait a second. We should be leading that place in international business in terms of how we do business. Exactly. And, like, to think now, well, you got your Bible undergrad. Now go into your master's program. You don't you don't need any more word of God because you got all that foundation Is is a little shortsighted to say at least. And I I think if more of our academic institutions would would open up to the fact that We can authoritatively use God's word to shape people into every functional aspect of human living.
[00:43:23.80] - Carlo Serrano
Yep.
[00:43:24.40] - Gregg Garner
Whether it's in the trade space or anything, that God's word can inform how that works. And and I know in our institution, that's what we're experiencing.
[00:43:31.19] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:43:31.90] - Gregg Garner
We we are we are experiencing people It's saying my I can't believe my Bible degree helped me be a better electrician.
[00:43:39.90] - Carlo Serrano
That's it.
[00:43:40.69] - Gregg Garner
You know? Like like, it's it's crazy how this happens.
[00:43:44.80] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. And we do in in at the grad level, at Manna U, we try to instill that in a bunch of Spaces. So I love that shift in the name for the missiological stuff.
[00:43:54.30] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:43:54.59] - Carlo Serrano
We teach global leadership for that same reason.
[00:43:56.69] - Benjamin Reese
Yeah.
[00:43:57.09] - Carlo Serrano
And and we take a more straight Traditional organization leadership approach to it. We integrate Bible into it, but it's from that place of compassion, from that place of love. I have to understand what it's like to be in their shoes, what that culture, what are the differences, what are the nuances. So we teach that. I love teaching research methodology. So Case study, qualitative, quantitative methods, and getting students to understand. I know this seems like boring math, But here's the practical problem. Why is this location growing and this one isn't? Why is this one experiencing life change and this person isn't? How come this Place has a high turnover. This one doesn't. You only know those questions if you learn how to do research.
[00:44:38.50] - Gregg Garner
Right. How do I know what truth is?
[00:44:38.90] - Carlo Serrano
Especially the last three years? What's real news? What's not news?
[00:44:43.50] - Gregg Garner
Mhmm.
[00:44:43.90] - Carlo Serrano
Well, if you understand the basics of how to do research, how to conduct an analysis of a piece of data, it's going to make You a better whatever.
[00:44:53.30] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:44:53.80] - Carlo Serrano
Even at the party, you're gonna be the one who can say, actually, that's not true. Right. Actually, that's completely made up. There's no so just at the most granule level, it's really cool to see our students Understanding that in a bible context.
[00:45:08.30] - Gregg Garner
That's so important.
[00:45:09.19] - Carlo Serrano
It's not just about local church leadership, local church in fact, I I I I teach against it to my students, especially when I'm teaching, like, a pastoral ministry class. I just encourage them. Look. The days of going to seminary And graduating and going and getting a sixty, seventy thousand dollar a year pastor job is like that stopped twenty five years ago. Like, that is not reality. You better learn how to do some other stuff Mhmm. If you wanna be in because you're committing to vocational ministry. Right. Listen. Our wonderful federal government could just side. We don't like you anymore. And what are you gonna do? Like, are you gonna still be a pastor, or are you gonna depend on that system? So to me, I'm like, you just need to be well rounded and be good and be educated and know how to finish what you start and learn a skill set and learn how to leverage that Skill set and other things.
[00:45:53.80] - Benjamin Reese
Yep. And if that means you sell insurance by day and run a church out of your garage, that is just as valid as fulfilling the all as standing in front of eight hundred people and preaching.
[00:46:10.09] - Carlo Serrano
So we gotta blow up that idea of coming to bible college to get the job. Right. Do something. And we need to shake up some of these parents and say, of these parents and say, “you're the same ones complaining about what's wrong with society.”
[00:46:14.80] - Benjamin Reese
That's right. Yeah. Yep. And what you're and what you're perpetuating is what's wrong with society. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:46:24.00] - Carlo Serrano
Yeah. Yeah. You're just speeding into the mountain. No. We need smart people. Wise people. Mhmm. You don't need to learn how to learn. That's what's gonna make the world a better place.
[00:46:32.19] - Gregg Garner
Right.
[00:46:32.50] - Carlo Serrano
What's made it so ugly is we've just abdicated it. If I can be crass, we've let the dummies take over, and we've just let education fall by the wayside. Mhmm. And we've made it so functional and practical…
[00:46:44.90] - Benjamin Reese
And we've sold our soul to mammon in so many ways.
[00:46:48.09] - Carlo Serrano
It’s just about the dollar and the bottom line. And as Christ followers, then we wonder, why is the world this way? We have an opportunity, Especially within biblical higher education particularly, we have an opportunity to influence that Right. Through how we train and develop our young people. So Yeah. To a parent listening, I would say the best thing you could do is get your kid connected to a bible university, a bible college. Nothing wrong with Christian little art schools. There's great ones out there. I differentiate the two, and that one is is attempting to do what they do in the name of Jesus, And the other is completely devoted to the mission of Jesus. We are a great commission institution.
[00:47:27.09] - Benjamin Reese
Mhmm.
[00:47:27.40] - Carlo Serrano
Like life change, The great commission, the great commandment, that's what we're in the industry of doing. Yeah. And we education will get you there. But our goal is we wanna see the world Transformed for Jesus. Whereas the Christian Christian University may also have components of that, but their bottom line is to give you a college degree.
[00:47:45.19] - Jeff Sherrod
Mhmm. Yeah.
[00:47:45.59] - Carlo Serrano
Into your trade and your field. And so that's why I value the uniqueness in your, for lack of a better word, like the Bible College movement.
[00:47:52.00] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. It's fantastic.
[00:47:54.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, I've I've so appreciated this conversation and doctor You got this again.
[00:47:58.80] - Carlo Serrano
You got it. Thanks again for your time.
[00:47:59.69] - Jeff Sherrod
I would love to do this again.
[00:48:00.40] - Gregg Garner
For sure.
[00:48:00.90] - Jeff Sherrod
It's just wonderful when people who share spirit, and, you know, the spirit of Jesus come together and talk and the kind of fruit that comes out of that. I'm so appreciative. So thanks for your guys' time. Doctor Serrano, thanks so where he's taking time to visit us, and I'll see you guys later.
[00:48:13.40] - Gregg Garner
Bye bye.
[00:48:17.19] - Jeff Sherrod
Thanks for listening to College Conversations. If you have ideas for the podcast, including topics or guests or even just questions you might have, we would love to hear them. Contact us using the link and the show notes. Thanks, and God bless.
Also see:
Gregg Garner
The Institute for GOD
Manna University
Carlo Serrano, President of Manna University
For comments, questions, or topic ideas, email us at conversations@instituteforgod.org